Monday, December 31, 2012

Law School Transparency files complaint with ABA regarding Rutgers-Camden

If you need a good laugh, I strongly recommend spending a few minutes perusing the official complaint LST has filed with the ABA regarding various shenanigans at Rutgers-Camden.

This story was covered extensively by ITLSS earlier this year, and it's nice to see that people who have a higher tolerance for official bureaucratic processes than I do are going to force the ABA Section of Legal Education to at least engage in some throat-clearing and wrist-slapping,  before it gets back to accrediting the latest batch of new law schools.

Anyway, it's safe to say that if the Members of the Academy were inclined to award Scammies, Rutgers-Camden would take home more 2012 statuary than The Godfather, Parts I and II combined.

97 comments:

  1. The ABA cockroaches allow this nonsense to happen. The organization CLEARLY cannot adequately police or regulate its member schools.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Lawprof- The link above is to a TLS thread on Fall grades.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I hope the ABA yanks their accreditation for a period of 3 years beginning in 2016. That allows current students to graduate before imposing the law school death penalty.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Kudos to LST, which gets my respect for filing this complaint. I am surprised no one has filed an ethics complaint with the New Jersey Supreme Court against Dean Andrews, who happens to be a licensed attorney. Didn't the appellate court which upheld NYLS's dismissal state that this is a possible avenue of recourse?

    Who knew Rutgers-Camden was the 18th best law school to get rich? When I read stuff like this and look at my bank account balance, I clearly made a mistake in not applying to Rutgers-Camden.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I would file a complaint against Rutgers LS but I'm busy increasing my GMAT score. My target is 450.

      Delete
  5. This is what I mean by doing something. Most of you just sit around here and complain but the guys at LST act. Have any of you filed a complaint against your law school's administrators? Have you filed a complaint with the ABA? Written your congressman?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I wrote them asking to support Coburn and Boxer. I have yet to get a satisfactory response.

      Delete
    2. What have you done?

      Delete
    3. 943 bitches online about other people, trying to undermine their efforts. That takes a giant of a man.

      Delete
  6. Replies
    1. Congratulations, dog breath. You really earned with that bit of wit.

      Delete
    2. "earned with" equals "earned it with"

      1034's scholarship is contagious

      Delete
  7. This is sad to see in my opinion. Thanks to the dismissal of the class action lawsuits, schools can get away with sending out misleading emails such as this one.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I agree but the schools have been doing far worse and for decades.

      I would like for LST to send a copy of this to the Associatipn of the Bar for the City of New york's Committee on legal education. Rhe committee should be interested in this information.

      Why haven't I done more directly myself? Honestly, I want to stay as anonymous as possible. I don't want my name in the paper as part of a story. I guard my privacy.

      Delete
    2. Why not offer to pen a draft of a complaint for LST? They can review and make (hopefully) minor edits and revisions and submit under their own name.

      Delete
  8. Does anyone know of a single website listing links/excerpts from the class action cases that have been ruled upon to date?

    I know that the ultimate outcomes have been favorable to the schools, but I also believe that most (all?) of the rulings have contained some fairly damning commentary on the schools as well.

    Having all of this material in one, easily linked-to place makes deterring potential law school applicants easier and therefore more likely.

    To a certain extent, that goal is achieved by the various scamblogs - including this one.

    But a small, compact, cohesive *package* of documentation would be very helpful as well.

    And I don't know that I have really seen anything like that in the scamblogging world.

    LST goes a long way towards this goal in terms of presenting extensive school-level data but in some ways their site can cause applicants to lose sight of the forest for the trees ("Sure, it looks like 85% of the schools are lying sh*tbags, but this one doesn't look so bad...and this one has interesting numbers...").

    Perhaps the various "scambooks" (new coinage?) can play this "concise package" role - but the books are not as widely advertised as they might be (Kickstarter-funded advertising campaign needed?) and some seem fairly muted in their condemnation of the schools.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Once again, this site has its "insider" finger really on the pulse.

    This complaint was made public two days ago. The scamblogs were so busy patting themselves on the back and spending their time trying to destroy the latest defector, they missed this (and other) news.

    Perhaps this blog should change its name to "A Day Late and a Dollar Short".

    And congrats to LST for actually doing something. Recent posts here have been dissecting and praising each other's law review articles, or saying in theory that we could file complaints against law schools deans.

    So why has nobody filed one?

    Campos or DJM, want to make real news? File the complaints yourself.

    Like sex, those who talk the most about change rarely do it. It's the quiet guys like LST who are delivering the goods behind the scenes.

    But leave it to this blog to take the credit...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So why has nobody filed one?

      We are waiting for you to do something.

      Delete
    2. 1104: you must be the one that the oracles call "Leiter". Idiot.

      Delete
  10. Has Epic Law School Awesome Disaster Fail blog gone offline?


    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Stop trying to drive traffic to your site. It's just kinda, well, pathetic.

      Delete
    2. It could be worse. He could be linking to those "$70 an hour jobs while you work at home!"

      That would be worse. I think.

      Delete
  11. I checked, and it looks like Epic Fail is gone.

    Could be temporary.

    My guess is that once Nando took Epic Fail off his blogroll his readership tanked, and not even a rapid succession of posts with explanations could save it.

    I don't know. I was always nice to him, and was kinda hurt the way he turned on me.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Don't worry, JD Painterguy will be back.

      Delete
    2. 5:27 - that was JDP you were just talking to, dope.

      Delete
    3. Epic Fail is the same blogger as Mr. Infinity and that spastic pantload also used to take his blog down and set it back up repeatedly as well.

      Delete
  12. ^^^He's just a wee babe in the woods after all.

    ReplyDelete
  13. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Epic Fail,
    He's got the cutest little,
    Baby Face!

    ReplyDelete
  15. Interesting point. If Campos and Merritt are licensed attorneys, they have an ethical duty to file ethics complaints, at least according to the reasoning of DJM's post yesterday.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Actually Trachtenberg's article touched on this. In theory, maybe ALL of us licensed attorneys, regardless of jurisdiction, have an obligation to report this.
      In the real world, the duty to report would require personal knowledge of the facts. It also should require licensure in the same jurisdiction as the offender. Would California, in which I am licensed, care whether I reported the misconduct of Kentucky lawyer, where I am not licensed and where it has no jurisdiction to consider the underlying offense? Would Kentucky try to discipline me, when it has no jurisdiction over me or my practice?

      Delete
  16. Magnificent beat ! I would like to apprentice at the same time as
    you amend your web site, how could i subscribe for a blog website?

    The account helped me a applicable deal. I were a little bit familiar of this
    your broadcast offered brilliant transparent concept
    Look into my website - breaking news

    ReplyDelete
  17. @1:23PM

    You know,I have this thing on my face. It's not exactly a mole and not exactly a freckle.

    Someone told me to see if it could be skin cancer, which is highly treatable if detected early.

    But then again, if I get cancer and die my SL debt will all be discharged.

    ReplyDelete
  18. We really need to be more careful about saying such things as "very few graduates make the national mean salary of $84,111". The point is not that few people (probably not even one) make $84,111 but that few people make anything close to that figure.

    The mean is deceptive because a naïve reader would expect an approximately normal distribution.

    That this Rutgers toilet feels the need to solicit people who are interested in business school rather than law school just shows that the roof timbers of the legal acadummy are rotting. Fall, O house of Usher! Collapse into the tarn!

    ReplyDelete
  19. Great Work LST. They are fighting the right fight and doing it with class and integrity.

    Keep it up!

    ReplyDelete
  20. When Hyundai lied about the mileage on their newer model cars, they were forced to refund the customers.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah but when Hyundai lied they held a gun to people's heads and forced them to buy their cars.

      - Jack Marshall, ethics guru, of ethicsalarms.com

      Delete
  21. Happy New Year Everybody.

    According to Back to the Future Part II, just two more years until flying cars and a world without lawyers.

    ReplyDelete
  22. @5:26PM Ditto.

    I wonder about the trees.

    Some day when they are in voice
    And tossing so as to scare
    The white clouds over them on.
    I shall have less to say,

    But I shall be gone.

    Happy New Year Everybody!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Go away, Paintroach. Keep your promise and stop posting here.

      Delete
    2. If he leaves, will you leave as well?

      That's an outcome everyone on this board could live with.

      Delete
    3. Sure, as long as there's a way to guarantee that the little deadbeat will pay off his debt himself - instead of handing the taxpayers the bill.

      Delete
    4. Why do you care so much? Are you a Sallie Mae collections agent?

      Delete
    5. LOL, no, just a taxpayer. I don't care to pay people good money to go on generation-long vacations.

      Delete
    6. You sure sound like a Sallie Mae agent. Seemingly little interest in turning off the student loan siphon, but a large interest in making sure painter pays his bills.

      Delete
    7. Why SHOULDN'T you pay back the money? Stupid Paintroach.

      BTW, I must have missed the voting. When did "everyone on this board" elect you, exactly?

      Delete
  23. http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202582328993&NonJD_candidates_easing_the_strain_on_law_schools

    Interest in juris doctor degrees has waned during the past two years, but the news for law schools isn't all bad: The number of students in non-J.D. programs has increased by 39 percent since 2005, according to figures released on December 21 by the American Bar Association.

    By contrast, the number of first-year students enrolled in J.D. programs fell by 8 percent during that same period. ABA-accredited law schools this year enrolled 11,067 non-J.D. students—representing approximately one-quarter of the 44,518 first-year J.D. students.

    The increase in non-J.D. students primarily reflects enrollment in master of laws (LL.M.) programs, but also students in non-law degree programs who want a little legal training.

    Law schools have rushed to add or expand LL.M. programs for foreign-trained lawyers and specialized LL.M.s for U.S. lawyers centered on fields including entrepreneurship, tax, health care, sports and maritime law. Law schools have billed those programs as giving graduates a leg up in the tough employment market, and as a way for practicing attorneys to break into new areas of law.

    Schools have financial incentives to expand their LL.M. offerings, since those students often take empty seats in existing classes.

    "Law schools see a demand for non-J.D. programs both for lawyers who want to develop expertise through an LL.M. and in business and professional communities where knowledge of the relevant law and process is valuable," said Barry Currier, the ABA's interim consultant on legal education. "As the demand for J.D. degrees slackens, schools are exploring other ways to broaden their revenue base."

    The ABA does not accredit non-J.D. programs, but does require that they not impede a law school's ability to ensure that its J.D. program meets all the accreditation standards.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What a lie! Getting an LLM would only make matters worse. "Can't get a job with our JD? Well, then, put up even more money for our LLM!" Jesus, what a swizz!

      Delete
    2. i'm still picturing Campos getting the stink eye from everyone else during that CU LLM meeting

      Delete
    3. If you're in a hiring position, DO NOT hire any foreign LLM students. This will dissuade anyone from enrolling in US LLM programs. Not that I'm planning on hiring any fuzzy foreigners to begin with, which is more admirable than these academic institutions selling out the American populace.

      Delete
    4. On the contrary, I am in charge of hiring at a major law firm and welcome foreign trained lawyers with LLMs.
      Some of these grads have been excellent additions to our associate class. But the biggest effect has been on our contract lawyers.
      With the wages I offer contract lawyers, I had been limited to hiring grads of third rate law schools who, to put it politely, were lazy idiots that resented the associates making $160,000/year. The LLMs I now hire as contract lawyers are intelligent and grateful for the salaries I offer, which are much higher than what they could make at home.

      Delete
    5. 734

      You sound august, indeed. But do you really offer these grateful LLMs a "salary"? Or is it really just an hourly wage, with no OT and limited bathroom breaks?

      OK, that was a completely rhetorical question.

      Delete
    6. One more thing, 734.

      It will be a beautiful day when major law firms offshore their hiring process to consulting firms in Bangalore. I expect they'll do it for a lot less than your rolled up cost. It's win-win all around, except for your sorry ass.

      Delete
  24. FIRST OF 2013!!!!!!

    Happy New Year to all my fellow law school grads out there in the trenches!

    And a big F@ck You to all the shills, Deans, Brian Leiter, Larry Mitchell, Chemerinsky, the ABA, Rutgers-Camden, Cooley, Thomas Jefferson and all the lawprofs who aren't actively working to fix this problem.

    ReplyDelete
  25. 52nd!!! Fuck that asshole trying to change tradition.

    ReplyDelete
  26. So, Cooley 1Ls do read this blog, after all. Good luck on exams.

    ReplyDelete
  27. So, Cooley 1Ls do read this blog, after all. Good luck on exams.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If Cooley 1Ls could read, then why are they going to Cooley? What exactly do you have to do to get denied admission to Cooley?

      Delete
    2. Cooley: Where the K stands for quality.

      Delete
    3. Sorry 4:38, hopefully, maybe, someone somewhere will bite on that line.

      Troll on, brother, troll on.

      Delete
  28. What's also a good laugh is the feasibility study put out to justify the new Indiana law school which is mentioned in the link above. Here's another blog page which rips it to shreds.

    https://lawschooltuitionbubble.wordpress.com/2011/07/05/indiana-tech-utterly-irresponsibly-predicts-a-future-attorney-shortage/

    I thought it was just an internal document, but apparently this was submitted to the ABA as a part of the ABA's accreditation procedure. I don't think Indiana Tech as been accredited yet, but I wonder if it will be given this feasibility study is a complete work of fantasy.

    ReplyDelete
  29. The Scammies:

    I am picturing a statue with a humanoid figure, no, two humanoid figures, but one is standing up straight while the other one is bent from the waste and is hunched against the first figure............

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Scammies, or Lubbies?January 1, 2013 at 6:16 PM

      Delete
    2. "The Faggies."

      Delete
    3. Great image, and "waste" about captures the whole process.

      Delete
  30. I remember reading somewhere that New Jersey leads the nation in toxic waste sites. Was Rutgers-Camden included in the count?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's on the Superfund list.

      Delete
  31. That brilliant poet, Maurice Leiter, could not have scripted a better complaint than this one from the folks over at LST. Well done, chaps, well done.

    ReplyDelete
  32. There once was a poet named Brian

    Every time his lips moved, he was lyin'

    ReplyDelete
  33. I know this site provides quality based articles or reviews and additional information, is there any other web page which gives such stuff in quality?
    my webpage > weight loss programs

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Why yes, your own mirror website will do nicely: iamatotalshithead.com

      Delete
  34. Off topic:

    If one is on Social Security and/or a Pensionn that is being garnished for SL debt, could somebody that has Parkinson's Disease, or even early Parkinson's Disease, pass the Brunner test and have their student loan debt discharged in bankruptcy court?

    Reason I ask is because I have heard that not even blind people can pass the Brunner test.

    In addition, if someone is clearly bankrupt, and diagnosed with Cancer and given 5 to 10 years to live, could they pass the Brunner Test and have SL debt discharged?

    Sad to say that it has come to this in America, and that these are real American Law questions and issues.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Would a diagnosis with a certain type of cancer enable a person to have SL debt discharged in bankruptcy?

    For instance, if the cancer is more severe or of a type that is more fast acting and fatal, such as Pancreatic Cancer or Lung Cancer, would a bankruptcy judge take that into consideration?

    If someone has a stroke or a brain aneurysm and is having their Social Security garnished by 15% for Sl debt at the same time, can that person pass the Brunner test?

    Suppose the stroke didn't completely disable the garnishee, but only blinded him or her in one eye and paralyzed on one side of the body.

    Is that enough to constitute an undue hardship.

    Surely there must be case law by now that had already decided such issues, given that 1 in 5 American familes have SL debt.


    ReplyDelete
  36. I have heard that if half a liver is transplanted into another person, it will regenerate and grow to full size.

    So why shouldn't it be legal to sell organs: say one kidney, one eye, half a liver etc. in order to pay off a Student Loan balance.

    Kind of like an animal chewing off his leg to get out of a trap.

    I'm dead serious, if I had the option and if it were legal I would sell a kidney to have my impossible to discharge SL debt discharged.

    There are days when I sit in traffic and just cry and have to put my sunglasses on so no one sees. These feelings come and go, but it is so hopeless and depressing and feels like a great and irredeemable failure of proportions that someone not in the situation will ever understand.

    And the idea of overcoming such a debt monster seems so futile that one gets into a mental state that says: why even bother? What is the use?

    What kind of a country did the USA evolve into after 236 years?

    What did our forefathers fight and die for? Student loan debt for all?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Selling your kidney and eyes: WAY easier than simply getting a government job.

      LOL, you seem to think that the Founding Fathers would be spinning in their graves whenever someone can't take a 20-year vacation from work and live with their parents (which I believe is called "childhood").

      Paintroach Resolutions for 2013:
      1. Grow up.
      2. Get a job.
      3. Stop mooching off your poverty-stricken parents.
      4. Keep your promise and stop posting here.

      Delete
    2. Arsenic is delicious and good for you too!

      Delete
    3. 5. Do it or don't. We're not losing any sleep over it.

      Delete
  37. Now that the courts seem to be throwing out these lawsuits (wrongfully IMO), how about we get the data and file complaints with the ethics divisions of the state bars. These class action lawyers have a wealth of incriminating data just sitting there collecting dust. If the courts don't have the balls, maybe the state bar associations do.

    ReplyDelete
  38. @5:43PM

    Here we go again with ease of getting a "government job" before new legislation will probably take PSLF as well as IBR away for good this year.

    So why did you take your site down?
    Afraid character and fitness won't like it?

    What a tragic loss when Judas showed his multiple persoanlities and took his 30 pieces of silver for betraying his blogging friends and ran away.

    For those that don't know it, Mr. Infinity is the World Traveling Law Student as well as the person that had a blog called Epic Fail, law school disaster.

    Jack Marshall seemed to favor Epic Fail.

    It is human nature for people (yes even lawyers) to watch someone high up on the ledge and tell him to jump. So is the person on the ledge obligated to jump just to prove a point?

    Maybe someone has to sacrifice themselves in order to show the gravity of soul and life destroying student loan debt.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You aren't Jesus, Paintroach. Sorry to break the news to you.

      All this suicide talk. So is society supposed to, like, pay you to NOT off yourself?

      Delete
  39. And that whole government job option is pure watered down bullshit from a first class cowardly anon shithead that has no idea of what he is talking about and did not do his research and does not tell the whole story.

    Also this person is a right winger and a conservative that wants to drive all the new Latinos that are undocumented out of the country.

    Also this person is not going to pass character and fitness for online attempts to taunt and goad a bankrupt man to suicide online.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. As I mentioned, I have several friends who are working on getting their loans discharged in precisely this manner. The bottom line is that you just refuse to do any work.

      And LOL, how does someone commit "suicide online?" Does that mean that ueeould get a job and stop using the Internet?

      Delete
  40. 1035 is pure rant.

    ReplyDelete
  41. ^^^^Ah hit a nerve?

    What friends working in Public Service? What are their names? What is your name? You are a sick coward and know very well that you would be disbarred for your anon remarks or rather never get past C&F.

    Have the guts to say who you are and stand behind your words.



    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You're a nut case.
      735

      Delete
    2. Hm, I wonder what the bar would say if *I* defaulted on a massive debt - and did not even attempt to pay it back.

      It doesn't really matter what their names are. But I'll bet that if you walked into ANY office full of government attorneys (DOJ, JAG, SEC, whatever), you'd soon learn that more than half of the newer hires were pursuing PSLF. And it doesn't even have to be an attorney position.

      Didn't need to go that route myself. Right now I'm focused on putting away money towards a (hopefully early) retirement. If all goes well, by the time I retire I will be younger than you are right now.

      Wish me luck!

      Delete
  42. Cool website buddy I am gona suggest this to all my list of contacts. www.free-credit-check.org

    ReplyDelete
  43. Ιt is genеrated up fгom a vаriеty οf grades of
    little mіxtuге thаt hаvе been
    beforеhand сοated in іncredibly hot bitumen
    that acts aѕ a bindеr when mixed comprehensively with ωarm asphalt.
    - Centre tunnеl chimney duct to maximise pгoductive scorching
    aiгflоω. Commenсe eleven mіles, and
    look аt thoroughlу for the sign to Laupahoehοe Stage Βeach
    Pаrk on the ѕuitable.
    Also visit my page ... Deep Dish pizza stone instructions

    ReplyDelete
  44. If you are hosting thе nеxt Pokеr pаrty at
    yоur home, here аre sοme great Poker party foods and Poκer
    pаrty decorations that аre eaѕy tο make and will not breaκ thе bank.
    Layеr bоttom with as much or as little pizza sauce
    as you like. Somеtimes thе рizzа slіce sеller wіll ρlaсe your ρrecious portion insidе of a triаngle-shapeԁ
    caгdboard сontaіner, smile, then wаve
    уou on your merry way.

    Feel fгee to surf to my blog рοѕt youmob.com

    ReplyDelete

Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.