Friday, October 12, 2012

Vanguard of the precariat

ITLSS is hosting its two millionth site visit today, which provides an occasion for looking back on what has happened over the fourteen months of this blog's existence.

Some signs of real progress:

(1)  Overall awareness regarding the existence of the law school scam has increased enormously.  In the mainstream media, the claim that the cost of law school no longer bears any reasonable relationship to the value added by a law degree has gone from a man bites dog to a dog bites man story in the space of less than two years.

(2)  As a consequence, total law school applicants are down sharply -- 23% since 2010 -- and while final totals for the class of 2015 are not yet available, preliminary figures suggest that this fall's entering class will feature around 15% fewer matriculants than the class of 2013.

(3)  The ABA Section of Legal Education has been pressured successfully into requiring schools to publish far more employment data than was available even a year ago.  For example, elite law schools are no longer able to hide the fact that they are hiring large numbers of their own graduates into short-term "jobs" that in many cases are classified as long-term for ABA reporting purposes (it's difficult to recall that twelve months ago there was almost no public acknowledgement of this fact).

(4) Prospective law students are gaining a better understanding of the emptiness of the once all-powerful USNWR rankings, and beginning to focus their attention on the only two factors that matter when choosing a law school: costs and outcomes.  (My new book Don't Go To Law School (Unless) provides, among other things, a concise guide on how to go about doing this.)

Going forward, it will be crucial for advocates of law school reform to connect their message with broader calls for reform in higher education generally.  Legal academia's combination of out of control costs, increasingly poor employment outcomes, and life-wrecking graduate debt totals (applicants in this current cycle are likely to graduate, conservatively, with an average of more than $200,000 in educational debt) can serve as a kind of canary in the coal mine in regard to the growing crisis in American higher education, which has generated more than one trillion dollars in outstanding student loan debt, while leaving a lost generation of young and increasingly not so young people with nowhere to go in our post-industrial economy.

The law school scam, in other words, is just the tip of the iceberg.  That is obviously very bad news, but it also contains a kernel of hope.  For if it were only or primarily law graduates who were being scammed out of their futures, it would be difficult to impossible to achieve any systemic change.  But this is the opposite of the truth.  We can even hope that the tens of thousands of law graduates who every year discover their degrees are worse than worthless may in time become a potential vanguard of the precariat -- a source of leadership for their so expensively educated and so badly under-employed generation.



92 comments:

  1. Tip of the iceberg is correct. Edububble has been talking about this for some time. The stats don't begin to capture other debt like PLUS loans, borrowing from the 401k or using a home equity loan.

    Edububble calls it "shadow" or "iceberg" debt.

    http://edububble.com/dpp/?p=476

    ReplyDelete
  2. The education bubble will burst in less than five years, as the defaulting or underpaying graduates of the Recession Years become the fixed norm. Cue the spooky music.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No, it won't.

      Because the entire point of everything in the financial system since 2008 has been to attempt to fill in the massive gaping financial hole with new debt to keep things going.

      Until the new debt cannot be originated, the twin legs of the current sovereign debt economy, namely healthcare and education will continue to be inflated.

      Delete
  3. congrats!

    i have personally tried to persuade several kids not to go to law school. 2 did additional reseach (includingthis site) and chose not to.

    unfortunately two did not listen.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Two of our former clerks are back at law school for their 2 and 3rd year. They are noticing a few people did not return. And the students are talking about this site and a few others. But they dont take several sites seriously. Guess which ones. lol

    ReplyDelete
  5. 7:16:

    They only need to pay attention to one.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Congrats on your accomplishments to date!

    I remember when the default assumption was that any professor would do the right thing by their students and respect their area of study. Boy, was that a long time ago.

    ReplyDelete
  7. LawProf,

    Excellent contributions.

    I recently encountered another example of "scam," this time in the world of state bar associations. It turns out that many states will not give those who take the bar access to their MBE scores. This means that if they ever want to waive into another jurisdiction, they must pay their state bar a hefty fee both to be advised if their score is high enough to meet the requirements of the other jurisdiction and to have that score sent. They can never learn their actually score, meaning that if they have to pay these fees every time they seek to transfer.

    While I can see not wanting to publicly publish individual scores if the bar is supposed to test minimal competency, I can't think of a justifiable reason for charging enormous fees for people to simply learn if their MBE score is sufficiently high.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This was sent to me by e-mail. If this was widespread I guarantee you the NY bar would be in on it.

      The score is of limited use though since it's scaled against other in your state so maybe you're talking about the raw score?

      Delete
    2. Certain jurisdictions, like DC, require that those seeking to waive in have a minimum MBE score. In DC, that score is 133. Many states, however, will not release the MBE score directly to applicants. See for example, VA: http://www.vbbe.state.va.us/pdf/MBEScore.pdf

      Delete
    3. What's the MBE? I never took it.

      Delete
  8. A few issues moving forward:

    1 Will any school adopt a new low cost model given the growing consensus that the current model is broken?
    2 Wikipedia lists 14 schools as having been closed in the past. It would be interesting to research why they closed.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_law_schools_in_the_United_States

    3 Whether unranked schools will stay open depends on whether higher ranked schools maintain standards and drop class sizes or drop standards and maintain class sizes. It will be very interesting to see how it plays out.

    LawProf, keep up the good word.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Schools will drop medians and raise tuition. Schools are never going to cut tuition.

      Delete
    2. The dropping of medians has already begun.

      Delete
  9. I am a practicing lawyer and am contacted from time to time by prospective law students.

    I try to talk them out of it, unless they have a full scholarship (including expenses), or parents/spouse is paying the way, or they have the family/political/social connections to guarantee a well-paying job (probably the best scenario--such grads will do well even in today's legal market--there always will be a top 5-10%).

    Fortunately most of them seem to grasp the problem of cost-versus-benefit imbalance.

    ReplyDelete
  10. The real problem is that we've lost perspective on what education is about. It's about students.

    Now, all the bullshit is about the "academic system," universities, our "collective future." We've lost sight of the students.

    For hundreds of years, universities have existed for two purposes: (1) research and the development of knowledge; and (2) educating and preparing students. Since law school research is mostly bullshit, only #2 is a legitimate goal. But since WW2, it has not been the goal of law schools.

    Many law schools don't give a damn about what's best for students. They aren't serving students' interests, aren't preparing them, and aren't asking the question of whether their existence serves students.

    The answer at most schools is, "no, we aren't helping students" in any meaningful sense of the world "help." That is what is meant by the law school scam. We've turned the educational system on its head. It's no longer about students; it's about the university (i.e., empire building) and faculty and administrators (i.e., feather bedding).

    ReplyDelete
  11. Health care bubble next.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Ha nice wikipedia link. I was just about to google "precariat." Lawprof knows his audience.

    ReplyDelete
  13. The debt calamity that is overwhelming law students is certainly a concern, but as Professor Kim Chanbonpin of John Marshall Law School explained in the blog post linked below, "there are myriad paths to success in the legal profession."

    Indeed, Professor Chanbonpin proves the point, having obtained a cushy law professor gig with essentially zero practice experience and a law degree from the University of Hawaii plus an LLM from Georgetown.

    http://www.jmls.edu/directory/profiles/chanbonpin-kim/chanbonpin-kim.pdf

    Professor Chanbonpin is not content to merely set a good example, but proactively advocates innovative methods of training young lawyers-- such as "[u]sing hiphop to teach ethical legal writing." She states:

    "Law students can become more proficient legal writers when they have engaged in a study comparing the cultural products of hip hop with the cultural products of the law. Both hip hop and legal writing value an insider’s expert knowledge of the sources that comprise the basis for new work in the respective fields. In hip hop, sources include beats and rhymes; in legal writing, a primary source is jurisdictional case law. Both hip hop and legal writing utilize peculiar systems of citation to aid in a participant’s development towards expert, insider knowledge. Both are at their best when they demonstrate the author’s depth of knowledge of the subject matter by showcasing the author’s skill at weaving existing sources with new, innovative ideas and arguments.”

    http://www.saltlaw.org/blog/2011/10/03/legal-writing-the-remix/

    dybbuk

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's heartening that Professor Chanbonpin has time for such pressing issues in light of the fact that JMLS is basically a human potential destruction factory at this point.
      I worked in the IL AG's office for about 5 years, which has a program whereby law students can intern for a semester for credit. My bureau cycled through a ton of JMLS 2Ls and 3Ls in that time, none of whom had jobs lined up, and none of whom I've ever seen in or near a Chicago courtroom.
      I'm sure that despite the life wrecking debt and the worthless degree from this shitheap, they all look back with fondness at the time spent exploring the intersection of hip hop and legal writing.

      Delete
    2. Prof. Chanponpin has a forthcoming law review article, elaborating on the idea –“Legal Writing, the Remix: Plagiarism and Hip Hop Ethics,” 63 Mercer L. Rev. __ (forthcoming 2012). A draft of the article is available on her SSRN page– it goes on for 54 pages.

      http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=1139549

      I am, genuinely, in awe of the glibness of her bullshit.

      dybbuk

      Delete
    3. That is truly insane. How on earth is that crap considered scholarship? Then again, if she's worked out a way to get paid for spouting off that complete and utter trash, more power to her! It's the Establishment that ends up looking foolish for permitting it to happen.

      If I ever become a law professor (which is my dream job after reading that), I believe I shall spend my time eating delicious foods and writing about food and the law, how the steak has influenced jurisprudence, the role of the pie in property law, etc.

      Delete
    4. How disgraceful to sign one's name to such tripe! What was she thinking?

      Delete
    5. @ 12:57

      Don't forget the influence of tortes on torts.

      Delete
  14. Congratulations! I am glad that this blog, rather than some of the sillier, dirtier blogs out there (most of which have thankfully disappeared) is carrying the standard for the movement. It was embarrassing when people thought that the law school scam was driven by a handful of nutzos.

    Now I have somewhere I can send people to read intelligent discussion about the issues, and this blog has been invaluable in spreading the word. The trouble with the other blogs is that they aren't sources that you want to send your parents, friends and co-workers to. They aren't sources where you can send prospective law students to give them a dose of reality.

    This blog is a fine resource, and one that I am proud to bring new visitors to.

    Here's to the next two million views. And here's to none of those next two million being JD Painter and his attempts to regain his former 'glory' by trolling here.

    ReplyDelete
  15. I'm curious why you think that the problems that exist in the law school sphere apply across all of higher education. I spot checked a few public undergraduate schools in my state and the tuition there is still reasonable. Or are you referring to private schools and for profit colleges which of course are a scam?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Probably not PosnerOctober 12, 2012 at 9:24 AM

      I agree with this comment. I think a fundamental problem in a lot of writing about higher education is that it is done by law professors and economics professors who teach in departments that are far different from other departments on campus. Insights about their departments or schools are not necessarily generalizable to other areas. Let's compare some differences between, say, a law professor and a science professor in terms of funding:

      1. Revenue

      Law schools get their money primarily through tuition. In the sciences, undergrads pay tuition, but graduate students generally do not. On the contrary, science professors must write grants to fund each of their students. In this sense, there is a grant "market" determining how many slots in science graduate programs there will be. That system has a lot of flaws, and is arguably not producing an optimal number of graduates, so I'm not making normative judgments. My point is that the funding situation is not analogous to law schools.

      2. Pay

      Law professors are being paid on average a lot more than professors in other departments. This difference cannot be fully justified by the claim that "law profs could have become partners," a claim that has been thoroughly debunked on other posts. Law professors also tend to get summer funding. This is a large contrast to sciences in which professors must win grants from the federal government in order to get paid for the summer. Again, they are subject to the grant market, and professors who are not producing (or, as is more often the case, producing but unlucky) thus lose income. If they don't get those grants, they are expected to nevertheless run their labs through the summer for free.

      Again, I'm trying to avoid making normative judgments. But I do think it is important to recognize differences across academia when thinking about whether the law school experience is generalizable to the university as a whole.

      Delete
    2. Probably not PosnerOctober 12, 2012 at 10:21 AM

      Also, law schools and med schools are cross-subsidizing other departments at many schools. Anyway, this all just to say--it's complicated.

      Delete
    3. What?? I'd say you're definitely not posner! Analogizing government grants to a 'market' is like anaologizing day and night. Total credibility fail. And who cares about the anaology to science professors anyway? What's next, a description of how ed-school profs are paid?

      Delete
    4. Um, 1) the government is functioning as a buyer of scientific research, and different professors offer to sell it their time. That's a market. 2) The post suggested that law schools can be a model for the "crisis" in other parts of higher ed. 8:54 and Posner are questioning that analogy.

      Delete
  16. two millionth site visit calls for a celebration!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLv6aiwTkqI

    ReplyDelete
  17. @8:54, read this:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/09/meet-the-high-priest-of-runaway-college-inflation-he-regrets-nothing/263032/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That article deals with private schools which I agree are outrageously priced. I think it's different when there's numerous reasonably priced alternatives as compared to law school where almost all of them are similarly priced.

      8:54

      Delete
  18. 24th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  19. With Warmest Wishes (not) From BrianOctober 12, 2012 at 9:52 AM

    (Yesterday's post)

    Hey PC, Brian L. sends his love...

    "I was surprised to discover from a post at Prawfs a few weeks back that Paul Campos (remember him?) was still alive and kicking. Last year, more than one reader had wondered, given the existence of post-tenure review in Colorado, and given Campos's poor record of both scholarship and teaching, whether or not his "scam blog" publicity stunt--posing as a whistle-blower--was really an attempt to deflect what would otherwise seem to be the natural outcome of such a process for someone with his record? "


    http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leiter/2012/10/post-tenure-review-moves-slowly-at-coloradoor-whatever-happened-to-paul-campos.html

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. interesting that he has no comment box for public comments....

      Delete
    2. he considers his critics to be the "bowels of cyberspace"

      Delete
    3. What a fucking liar that piece of shit is. It's obvious he lurks on this blog constantly. I sincerely hope that some desperate grad pops a cap in his pasty white ass (hip hop phrase, yo). It would be no less than he deserves.

      Delete
    4. How would this guy have any idea what Campos' teaching record is?

      Delete
    5. Slinging mud at Prof. Campos is no way to address his arguments.

      Delete
  20. Wow, Leiter has a thin skin.

    I don't for a moment believe his statement that he has not looked at this blog for a year.

    I think that, in Leiter's case, it's beyond making a man understand something that comes between him and a paycheck. For some reason, Campos is an existential threat to Leiter's psychology.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I know, after all, surely every negative comment here has been by Leiter himself. Right?

      Delete
    2. We ought to be careful about this. After all, accusing someone of being Professor Leiter is defamation per se--we ought to be pretty sure that a truth defense is available before bandying such allegations about.

      Delete
    3. If Leiter ever tried to bring a defamation action, all of his trolling would be revealed.

      Delete
  21. That's because you are not an Übermensch like Professor Leiter. If you were, his server would sense your presence and allow you to post a comment. However since there are no other Übermenschs equal to Professor Leitner, you and your peers will not be able to make catty and disrespectful remarks insulting this great man, who unlike you, teaches at the University of Chicago. Please promptly remove yourself from the gene pool, we have certain eugenic standards to maintain.

    BLA (Brian Leitner's Army)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Or as the slogan goes an "Army of One."

      Troll win! I liked this.

      Delete
  22. Based on what I've seen, Campos looks much more effeminate and gay than Leiter.

    Not sure what relevance that has to anything, if any, but I thought I'd point it out.

    ReplyDelete
  23. The Madoff analogy in Leiter's last paragraph, as well as his prose style and tone, correspond pretty closely with comments made on this site by the Anonymous "hypocrisy" poster.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Congratulations! There are still too many applicants but over time that number will drop now that there is momentum with 2 million site visits.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Just because Master Leiter would once, and only once, dirty himself by reading a mere fraction of this site, it does not follow that he would further stoop to conquer, I mean make catty, anonymous, self serving posts here. You're all a bunch of peasants!

    BLA

    ReplyDelete
  26. America is not the only place experiencing high youth under/unemployment.

    Europe-
    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/10/europes-most-tragic-graph-greek-youth-unemployment-hits-55/263118/

    China-
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/02/18/us-china-middleclass-idUSTRE61H01220100218

    It's happening all over the globe (the Chinese "Ant Tribes" are particularly compelling stories). So what's the common denominator?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, but at least if you're unemployed in Europe you're not in hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt. I'd rather have nothing than have debt.

      Delete
    2. And you have access to "state" health care.

      Delete
  27. If your parents arent rich and you cannot go to Princeton, Harvard, Yale, MIT or Stanford, do not go to college or anything else involving higher education.

    http://nation.foxnews.com/culture/2011/01/24/unionized-ny-garbage-men-haul-144k-year

    Now, if the above cited job, and jobs of that kind, is/are beneath you, STFU, pay your loans, live like a pauper, and bask in your "prestige." (If you hit the BL or IB lottery, then ofcourse, tge latter does not apply to you).

    If you are or were smart enough to get into LS, then you could have gotten one of those jobs out of HS if you did not make yourself overqualified for them. I was very, very sympathetic to this movemeny, but the information is out there now. If you do not have a trust fund, you have to be spectacularly elite, otherwise you take a shit job the politicians protect or you accept that tou will do a white collar job that provides a poverty stricken life style. The end.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You forgot being rich going to Columbia is credited as well.

      Delete
  28. I hope Lawprof responds to Leiter's post.

    I understand Leiter being upset that somebody is calling into question the value of legal scholarship. What I don't understand is why Leiter insists that he belongs in the camp of Tamanaha and Henderson. Has he actually written anything about this?

    I'm not just talking about law school "puffery" in general, but about manipulating statistics in employment and salary outcomes for students. Has Leiter EVER written about this? Where are the links? What on earth is he talking about?

    Like him or hate him, Paul Campos has raised more attention to this specific issue than anybody who preceded him. More than Tamanaha, more than Henderson, and for damn sure more than Leiter. And that's a good thing, because attention needed to be raised. Leiter could have been the one to do it. Why wasn't he? And why isn't he now?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Because Leiter doesn't care about law students. He particularly doesn't care about anyone who isn't at a top school. He gets to look down his nose at everyone else and feel smug and self- satisfied. That other people struggle only reinforces their inferiority to him.

      Delete
    2. Why not take five seconds and try searching before you post?

      http://www.leiterrankings.com/usnews/guide.shtml

      Delete
    3. I'm sure glad Brian Leiter doesn't compulsively check this blog for references to himself and then lie about that on his own blog.

      Delete
    4. I followed the link above. No question about it, Leiter identified the potential for abuse in employment statistics as early as 2003. He does it in the context of a larger argument that the US News rankings are flawed (the role of employment statistics in determining the rankings being one reason).

      Good for him.

      Like somebody says down thread, it would have been great if Leiter had decided to champion this issue himself. He is a big personality with a big microphone and he probably could be an even more effective advocate for scam victims than Paul Campos is. But that isn't something he chose to devote much time or attention to. That was his choice.

      And it was also his choice to attach and (attempt to) intimidate Paul Campos when he started this blog. To me, that puts him firmly on the wrong side of history when it comes to the law school scam. Leiter is not on the side of reform, his words and actions support the status quo and the creation of more and more scam victims.

      Delete
  29. Re: 1:05 p.m.

    While it's true that cops, firefighters, and muni-workers are currently a protected class, as has been stated on this blog more than once "if something cannot go on forever, it won't."

    Municipalities and states are slowly (or not so slowly in some cases) going broke, and these huge pension liabilities are soon coming due. These massive salaries/retirement packages have flown under the radar to date, but when the union crap hits the fiscal fan, it will be all over. Expect numerous revolts when the legislatures try to jack up taxes to pay for ever increasing retirement packages to their cronies.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wait, didn't we just learn that finance's latest scandal, LIBOR rate-rigging, ripped off municipalities for hundreds of millions a year?
      http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/11/libor-sucker-hometowns/

      I'm tired of attacks on so-called entitlements. Of course there are those who have abused the system, but generally there would be plenty of money to pay for these benefits if not for LIBOR fraud, out-sourcing, and other outside economic conditions.

      And let's not forget Wall Street-induced tragedies like the Jefferson County, AL sewer scandal-
      http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-09/jefferson-county-s-path-from-scandal-to-u-s-bankruptcy-filing-timeline.html

      Delete
    2. Not to mention that public pension funds lost hundreds of billions to Wall Street shenanigans in 2008.
      http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/07/AR2008100703358.html?sid=ST2008100702063

      Delete
  30. I don't know the fancy greek names for the various logical fallacies, but certainly there must be one for the charge that somebody's argument is wrong because somebody is a hypocrite. Isn't Leiter a philosophy guy? Shouldn't he know this?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Argumentum ad hominem, or possibly tu quoque. And they're Latin, not Greek.

      Delete
  31. Lawprof should ask his friend Megan McCardle to put him in touch with Bob Wright over at Bloggingheads TV. With 2 million visits, Campos is big-time blogger and should be invited to go on Bloggingheads to be interviewed and/or debate this issue. I think Leiter even did a Bloggingheads once years ago. Put them on together.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Never forget:

    http://www.autoadmit.com/leiter.html

    ReplyDelete
  33. So if he can't answer the argument Leiter disparages the person who raised it? Kind of like a heart surgeon pointing out that a new surgical technique is killing children only for the surgeon to be told he went to State U for his MD and not Harvard, therefore all the dead kids really aren't deceased.

    ReplyDelete
  34. @ 1:15,

    Nothing is going to happen. Look at Chicago where the teacher's union went on strike, and in this climate, where tax payers are getting fired from their jobs and/or are having to work longer and harder for their pay, the union was able to get a 4% raise for its members.

    ReplyDelete
  35. I'm actually surprised Leiter isn't on the other side of this particular issue. Think of what his comments would look like if he were speculating on the next law school to close, and how that poor faculty just couldn't cut it.

    He seems to get joy out of rankings and separating the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.

    Did he just enter the fray too early and pick the wrong side?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Did he just enter the fray too early and pick the wrong side?"

      Yes. Absolutely. Re-reading his initial attack on "Scamprof" is almost painful, it's so premature. And ever since he's been forced to tweak his position as the existence of the law school scam has become more and more apparent. It's a shame really, because I hear he's a nice dude (in person, anyway) and it would be great to have someone like him on the right side.

      Delete
  36. No kidding?

    2 million site visits and only 62 members?

    Nando has far less visits, and 100 or so members.

    And I might poke fun at Leiter, but if he knew Allan Bloom he is OK.

    And Leiter has some nice lectures on Youtube too :) Which go well with popcorn and piping hot, buttered coffee, read all about it!

    And Philosophy is not for the young so much as for older, indebted folks.

    And silly philosphy is called Silopphsopthey, after a few beers.

    And it is off to Jury Duty I go :)

    I......have....been.....called!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Again, no relevance whatsoever.

      Nando is a moron. You are too.

      F off.

      Delete
    2. Since you graduated last from a third tier law school, failed the bar three times, have poor grasp of logical fallacies or even cause and effect, what would qualify you for jury duty? Seems like it would guarantee a mistrial.

      Delete
    3. Don't tell anyone on the jury that you're an att .. er ... a law graduate. They'll probably laugh. Try not to speak too much so they don't think you're an idiot. Hey, maybe you can stalk the female bailiff. Recite some stupid philosophy or poetic bullshit, and I'm sure you will sweep that shemale bailiff off her feet. I hope she sticks her big black stick up yer butt. Maybe that will shut you up for good.

      Delete
    4. @ 6:46

      Really unnecessarily nasty.

      Delete
    5. ^ I try ... particularly when it comes to complete jackasses like J.D. Painter.

      Delete
  37. LawProf,

    As always, magnificent - simply magnificent.

    Telling that one of the biggest incubators of loud Academic liberalism (the Law School - almost all of them) is actually the beating heart of institutionalized financial rape.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Econmist William Baumol recently published a book, The Cost Disease (ISBN 978-0300179286 ) which presents an argument as to why tuition will not be lowered:

    "Over time, average productivity in the economy rises. In some industries, automation and technology make productivity rise rapidly, producing higher real wages (because a single person can make a lot more stuff). But by definition, there most be some industries where productivity rises more slowly than the average. The classic example has been live classical music: it takes exactly as many person-hours to play a Mozart quartet today as it did two hundred years ago... One widely cited example is education, where class sizes have stayed roughly constant for decades (and many educators think they should be smaller, not larger)...."

    "The problem is that in those industries with slow productivity growth, real wages also have to rise; otherwise you couldn’t attract people to become classical musicians, teachers, or nurses. Since costs are rising faster than productivity, prices have to rise in real terms. Note that university tuition and health care costs are both going up much faster than overall inflation. As a consequence, since GDP is measured in terms of prices paid, these sectors take up a growing share of GDP."

    http://baselinescenario.com/2012/10/12/why-taxes-should-pay-for-health-care/

    I don't know if I agree with this analysis because law schools definitely strike me as bloated institutions with outsized fees As is the case with healthcare, most other industrialized nations are able to deliver similar services for a much lower cost.

    Of course in most industrialized nations, those services have been totally socialized. Which just goes to show that socialism is actually is more efficient than capitalism.

    High Plains Lawyer

    ReplyDelete
  39. However much we criticize Brian Leiter, Friedrick Nietzsche and the Legal Conumdrum is a magnitude better than the intersection of hip-hop and the law. And of course Leitner can do less harm, almost all Chicago graduates end up with legal careers, where the ABA outcomes statistics show less than 15% to 20% for John Marshall graduates. It's only a short four miles from Chicago, maybe he should monitor a couple of professor Chanbonpin's classes before he holds out on the health of American legal education.

    ReplyDelete
  40. "Of course in most industrialized nations, those services have been totally socialized. Which just goes to show that socialism is actually is more efficient than capitalism.

    High Plains Lawyer"


    Here is a good link re the efficienncy of socialism. http://mises.org/liberal/ch2sec4.asp

    also check out the video from the Hungarian about the evils of socialism. its easy to find.

    a problem with the two industries you already mentioned ate the already have too many ties with the government through federal loans and federal directives. Socialisma nd Fasciam are already here.

    Check out Atlas Shrugged the movie. YOu might learn a bit about socialism from someone who lived through it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Actually, I probably understand Communism better than you do. I was an exchange student in the former Soviet Union and saw it up close and personal.

      But there is socialism and there is socialism. Yes, Communism was bad, but things are not so bad in Germany, France or Sweden.

      It is difficult imagining the worst central planner in the former Soviet Union creating twice as many lawyers as the economy could absorb.

      Let us not forget that Communism was the product of free market capitalism. Keep in mind that during the Victorian era, between 30 and 60 million people died from free market policies. (See the Victorian Holocaust and the writings of Nobel laureate Amartya Sen.) People were starving to death on the railroad tracks leading to warehouses filled with food.

      Ayn Rand is the epitome of evil and barbarism. Citations to fringe economists, like the Austrian school are not at all persuasive.

      High Plains Lawyer

      Delete
  41. @ Anonymous 6:27 p.m.

    Seriously, where did you hear that Leitner (I know, I know) is "a nice dude in person?"

    His phoniness is nicely illustrated by the way he begins his latest attack on Campos, affecting ignorance of this blog and its impact. He writes:

    "Whatever happened to Paul Campos? I was surprised to discover from a post at Prawfs a few weeks back that Paul Campos (remember him?) was still alive and kicking."

    Leiter bills his blog as a commentary on legal academia. It is an undeniable fact at this point that Campos and his critique are very well known -- maybe notorious is a more apt word -- in legal academia. Virtually every law school dean, administrator and professor who pays any attention to the profession has heard of Campos. The same can't be said for Bleiter, and that just kills him.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I've heard that from his former students and others whom have met him in person. Trust me, I know what a monster the guy is on the internet.

      But hell, for all I know, it's just an act. I mean the guy both looks and acts like Gollum.

      Delete
  42. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  43. As entertaining as a full blown smackdown would be, Leiter is really nothing more than a distraction. Let's leave him be.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Perhaps he will return the favor?

      Delete
  44. He didn't know LP was still blogging? But Leiter was still trolling this site earlier this year.

    http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/2012/02/you-cannot-be-serious.html?showComment=1330475314926#c8927061840038511910

    ReplyDelete
  45. The very highest of ethical standards and concern for clients. Unfortunately, not as much concern for the crew (until very recently that is - and even that is being treated like a project rather than a cultural adjustment. Compensation, compensation, compensation. The company is very proud of being "average" in this area and that is acceptable.
    phlebotomy education illinois

    ReplyDelete

Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.