Monday, July 23, 2012

Cooley counts temp doc review as a full-time long-term job

Friday a federal judge ruled that because "the [employment and salary] statistics provided by Cooley and other law schools in a format required by the ABA were so vague and incomplete as to be meaningless," those statistics "could not reasonably be relied upon." Therefore anybody who did rely on those statistics could not claim to have been defrauded, since the statistics were too fraudulent to defraud reasonable people (If this argument makes sense to you, you have what is called a legal mind).

Over the last year and a half enough pressure has been brought to bear on the ABA's Section of Legal Education that the lower-tier law school deans and faculty who control it have been forced to disgorge school-specific employment (but not salary) information.  People who apply to Cooley and other law schools can go to an ABA web page and look up how many 2011 graduates of those schools supposedly got full-time long-term jobs requiring bar admission.

There they will learn that Cooley reported 375 of 999 2011 graduates got such jobs (that's approximately 37.5% for us English majors).  That sounds pretty awful, but even this dire number is probably significantly overstated.  Leaving aside the fact that 21.3% of those "jobs" consist of the 80 2011 Cooley grads who listed themselves as solo practitioners, if we go to Cooley's web page and dig around long enough to actually find the placement data page, we will find this footnote in small print underneath the first employment table (brought to my attention by a law professor who prefers to remain nameless):

NOTE: The ABA advised schools to determine and report every graduate’s full-time/long- or short-term and part-time/long- or short-term employment status, even if a graduate did not voluntarily supply complete information. Of those 2011 graduates reporting sufficient information for Cooley to make this determination, slightly more than 87 percent reported full-time/long-term employment. Based on this high percentage, the default classification for those lacking complete data was full-time/long-term unless Cooley had evidence to contradict that classification.

Note also that graduates working for legal temporary agencies were classified as full time/
long term due to the nature of their employment contract with the temporary agency.
Did you get that? Cooley grads who didn't indicate whether they were employed full-time, or long-term, were simply classified by the school as employed in full-time long-term jobs unless the school "had evidence to contradict that classification."  (I suspect they didn't look too hard for such evidence).

This methodology produces some remarkable comparative results.  For instance, according to Cooley's calculations, 91.7% of its 2011 grads who had legal jobs were in full-time/long-term positions, which is a higher percentage than Cornell (85.5%), UCLA (72.5%), Notre Dame (72.8%), and indeed the vast majority of ABA law schools.

Of course it helps pump up a bottom-feeding law school's "full-time/long-term" employment rate when it counts temporary document review positions as full-time long-term employment, which is precisely what Cooley has done. I can only imagine what jesuitical arguments were deployed by whoever decided that the "nature" of temp agency employment contracts required grads on doc review gigs the day their employment status was determined to be counted as employed in "long-term" positions (Most temp agency doc review positions last a few weeks. If you're curious about the life, JDU has a whole section devoted to it).

So even now Cooley continues to pump its employment stats full of as much hot air as its administrators think they can get away with.  What's remarkable is that, even when presented in this gamed-up form, the stats required by the brand new reporting regimes reveal how flat-out crazy anyone would have to be to attend Cooley (with exceptions as always for the independently wealthy and people who just need a law license to step into a guaranteed job).

Those stats indicate that Cooley was able to determine that a total of 10.9% of the school's 2011 grads were making a salary of $46,000 or more, at a school where the average level of law school debt at graduation (not total educational debt) is now over $115,000.  Nearly 40% of the class was either completely unemployed or had an unknown employment status. That the employment status of 263 out of 999 2011 Cooley grads was unknown is perhaps the single most remarkable aspect of the school's employment statistics. (The other four law schools in the state graduated 1,074 people in 2011.  A total of nine of these graduates had an unknown employment status).

I guess Cooley figures that what the school doesn't know can't hurt it. Hopefully fewer and fewer law school applicants are employing the same logic.

85 comments:

  1. 10:58 here. Sweet. I finally got to be first.

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  2. "Of course it helps pump up a bottom-feeding law school's "full-time/long-term" employment rate when it counts temporary document review positions as full-time long-term employment, which is precisely what Cooley has done."

    The longest doc review project I ever had lasted six months and that was years ago. Projects lasting longer than a year are like dodos - a long dead thing of the past.

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  3. As you peel back the onion, it just gets more and more unbefuckinglievable what these assholes are getting away with.

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  4. What an "honorable profession," huh?!?!

    In the final analysis, federal politicians in black robes are not going to hurt a $y$tem that has benefited them so well. If an entire generation of young people must go through a meat grinder of student debt and no work, in order for the scammers and Boomers to continue the cartel, then that is what will occur.

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  5. All of Cooley's campuses need to have their ABA accreditation revoked. This is a disgrace.

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  6. RIP law "profession"

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  7. I am over law. I don't know what I'll do but I'm out. I got suckered. Snake oil salesman have more honor.

    Man was I stupid. oh well .

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  8. I hope this place shuts down. It already is held in low regard. Why would anyone go? And better, why should Uncle Sam guarantee student debt for Cooley students?

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  9. No wonder people are dropping like flies. My 1L section had about 80 people. It seems like 5-10 are transferred up and out, and another 10-15 are dropping out all together.

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  10. I don't know what enrages me more--the fact that the ABA has accredited this dump, or the fact that my tax dollars are paying for as much tuition as Cooley cares to demand, no questions asked.

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  11. @11:21 - couldn't agree more. What a waste of a life for me, you, and so many others. In law, even if you win, you lose.

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  12. Even the ABA numbers are suspect. I know the numbers for SUNY Buffalo don't look right.

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  13. Crazy.

    The World Traveling Law Student | 18%

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  14. LawProf: I know it's not high on your priorities, but I'd like your thoughts on AALS. Take, for instance, the meat-market:

    AALS fee: $450. Typical number of applicants: 1,000.

    Quite a profit for AALS.

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  15. Professor:

    Can you perhaps give your thoughts regarding why this case and the New York Law School case were summarily dismissed? Wouldn't these questions of fraud be appropriate for a jury to decide?

    The easy answer is that the judges don't want to upset the apple cart but is there anything beyond that?

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  16. .....but, but, but, but they are dedicated to granting opportunities to higher education to minority students.

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  17. "Note also that graduates working for legal temporary agencies were classified as full time/
    long term due to the nature of their employment contract with the temporary agency."

    How could anyone think this was ethical?

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  18. This just makes me sad. What a disgrace.

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  19. I went to the Cooley Face Book page and you still have Cooley fans congratulation the judges decision. They must be drinking the Cooley Kool-Aid.

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  20. Speaking of doc review.  Just wondering if you're familiar on any level with it.  Paul Krugman has done a few blog posts on the insidious nature of domestic outsourcing - http://alturl.com/5cz4w - and the legal field, despite the presence of the ABA and the supposed benefit of being a protected guild (lol), has fallen right along with everyone else.  Well, minus the fact that everyone else doesn't usually incur 6 figure debt for the pleasure of being outsourced so a middle man can get a cut of your labor.

    Becoming an attorney in the 21st century.  Good times.

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  21. Lawprof;

    Do you think the Federal Government should loan money to students enrolling at Cooley? Is there a single, coherent argument why Cooley Law School(s) exists?

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  22. DIS HERE BE SOME FUKED UP SHYIET RI-AH HEYAH

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  23. NYLS Lawsuit 2: Electric Boogaloo

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  24. Does working as a "staffer" for "Cooley for [Stupid] Kids" qualify as full-time employment? If so, the 11 students featured with Don LeDuc and the Lugnuts mascot (see link to pictures) are counted as employed for purposes of NALP and the ABA surveys:

    http://www.cooley.edu/news/2011/072011_cooley_for_kids_2011.html

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  25. "Note also that graduates working for legal temporary agencies were classified as full time/
    long term due to the nature of their employment contract with the temporary agency."

    Do people realize that a lot of these temp agencies sometimes only hire people for a single day? What I wonder is how did Cooley count these people; did they take a snapshot of a single day or did they see if anyone worked at least one day the past month, et cetera?

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  26. I think what you are all missing in these dismissals is:

    1. The judges all point out how the stats are bullshit. In other words they agree with the LSS movement.

    2. While their statements of caveat emptor are harsh, perhaps they are what the country needs now. Why are so many Americans ready to scream "that's not fair" instead of "it was my fault for being stupid enough to get duped."

    3. These cases are indisputably appeals court level cases, and until we see a real judge decide these questions we should not draw too many conclusions.

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    Replies
    1. Quite a few of us have 6-figure educational debt that isn't dischargeable in bankruptcy. We can't find legal jobs and we are deemed over-qualified for non-legal jobs. We relied on the schools misleading statistics re:emoloyment and salary to justify taking on that debt and losing 3 years of our lives in law school.

      There's a word for their misrepresentation---fraud.


      So, yeah, I think we are entitled to have an opinion on issue.

      Additionally, those posters who aren't in the same position as us but support our position, at least have some sympathy for us and compassion for the poor lemmings and wayward liberal artists considering law school.

      Delete
  27. Most professional schools today are a scam. Obviously this board is devoted to the scam of law school,but it's no better for other professions such as engineers and architects. The tone of this blog and most of these "scam" blogs is becoming exceedingly repetitive. We all recognize it was a scam and cooley is a joke. What's the point of just repeating it daily and concentrating on it? It's best at this time to just let it go and try to salvage what's left for the rest of your lives. You don't want to look back and see how bitter you were when you were young over something that will seem trivial in a few years like a few lost years of schooling and some relatively small amount of money.

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    1. 6-figure law debt school debt with a repayment plan of 25-30 years is not a trivial, short-term issue.

      Delete
  28. "will seem trivial in a few years like a... ...relatively small amount of money"


    Troll much?

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  29. 1:14:

    I would love that. HOWEVER, the debt is a monthly reminder. No small amount of money for most of us. I would gladly hand in my degree for debt forgiveness.

    Maybe you should educate yourself on the matter before judging. Your comments suggest that you are either a troll, stupid, or ignorant of the real problem.

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  30. "You don't want to look back and see how bitter you were when you were young over something that will seem trivial in a few years like a few lost years of schooling and some relatively small amount of money.

    @1:14:

    Hardly trivial and hardly a small amount of money. We are talking about debt that accrues at an enormously fast pace. Most individuals will never be able to pay it off. I am lucky in that I had a fairly small amount of debt compared to most. My debt, when I was unable to pay it due to the job market, increased by $20,000 each year. I don't even earn that much per year. I am looking at having this debt for the rest of my life. I'll never be able to get a loan again (for a house or a car) and I'll never be able to contribute to the economy. I don't personally care because if I can't pay it, I can't pay it and nothing I do appears to be able to change that.

    But multiply me by thousands and hundreds of thousands and you have a major problem for the American economy. That is one of the major factors why this economy has not been able to rebound: you have a significant portion of an entire generation who cannot contribute to the economy like generations past. The economy cannot begin to be repaired unless more thought is given to this.

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  31. @ Bam Bam,

    My man/woman, as always, you get it.

    @1:01,

    The country does not need caveat fucking emptor with my tax dollars! Even if I were to accept that these kids deserve what they get for not investigating, (which I do not), there is a fucking higher duty of care when my FEDERAL TAX DOLLARS ARE AT PLAY.

    Does anyone understand how utterly sick this is? We are creating indentured servants with Federal Tax Dollars? We are all going to have to pay higher taxes so that some school can charge whatever it wants, while at the same time releasing desperate wage slaves into the economy!!!!!!!!!!!!

    This is a double tax. Everyone will pay more taxes to cover the default, and a significant number of people will have their wages reduced, not merely because of the increase in supply, but because the newbies that will enter the field are/will be totally desperate!

    This is what happens when the politicians get out of control. Its not about truth or justice anymore. Its about what people think and catering to people’s emotions so you can scam them. If the judge in this case ruled in favor of the plaintiffs, people would say it was a scam, and these kids are “entitled.” Yet what these fucking idiots fail to grasp is that EVERYONE is going to pay for this either through IBR (which is default under a different name) or direct defaults if IBR is pulled.

    We are in trouble, we are going down a very bad road. This is total corruption.

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  32. File a qui tam False Claims Act

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  33. This afternoon, I had lunch with an attorney who has been practicing law for 25 years. He told me that he now charges $500 for an uncontested divorce, $500 for a Chapter 7 bankruptcy, $300 for a DUI case, $500 for a real estate closing and he has lowered his contingency fee on a personal injury case from 33% to 25%. I asked him why he slashed his fees and he told me the newbie attorneys are undercutting him because, in addition to not knowing how to practice law, they don't know how much to charge. This is a race to the bottom that will end badly except for the law school deans and professors that are making bank for scamming unsuspecting lemmings. Also, the newbies are being sued in droves for malpractice which has driven my premiums up by 150% in the past 3 years. Good times.

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  34. @1:14
    College is far better for Engineers and Architects:

    1. Tuition is no more for these degrees than any other undergrad degree. No law school or graduate debt to incur.

    2. Graduate school in most Engineering subsets is not considered profitable to advance further your field -- an MBA or MS in something like Engineering Management is far better way to advance. Most people are better off going into the work force right out of college, experience matters more than education.

    3. In my field (Civil Engineering), once you get your P.E licence (which in my state doesn't necessarily require a college degree at all), it doesn't matter where you went to school. Just what have you done, and how you can serve your client efficiently.

    4. Although the average salary may be lower than lawyers, I would be willing to bet that there is far less variation in Engineering across the board. This lessons any feelings an engineer may have towards feeling like they "lost".

    I was unemployed for almost two years largely by choice as I got courted my wife during the time and decided not to look outside my City for work. I even briefly considered law school (that's what got me hooked on this blog and led me to the obvious decision not to apply).

    -
    As as been stated in many forms through the comments, the Law Schools are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the issue of the value of higher education.

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  35. @1:43 -

    Isn't this all the more reason that the judge would WANT to close shop on Cooley and the diploma mills? It seems like the only people benefiting from the entire charade are the schools.

    I am legitimately confused as to why the profession doesn't scream bloody murder in an effort to protect itself?

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  36. @2:05 P.M.

    Cooley grads pose no threat to BIGLaw firms, the federal bench, faculty at top tier schools, or the ABA. They are protecting their own interests. They couldn't care less about barely surviving solos, small firms in a race to the bottom, or graduates from dumps like Cooley with insurmountable debt loads. These concerns literally do not matter to the powers that be in the legal profession

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  37. Regulatory capture by the excess schools. Heard a discussion on NPR this morning about the economic problems of new graduates. Who did they have on, that huckster Dean of New England School of Law who also sits on the ABA Accreditation Committee. That guy makes a living by rogering bottom LSAT takers and he is the one our guild allows to speak on legal education.

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  38. 1:14 here. I'm really not a troll and apologize if I diminished anyone's financial hardship. I only said it was a relatively small amount-because if you live until 70 or 80- 50 or 100k dollars won't seem that much in the scheme of life. My ex gf is an architect and incurred over 130k in tuition and never got a job due to the construction/real estate crisis. I know plenty of jobless engineers who get hired, downsized, made redundant etc in what seems like a continuous cycle. In general, it seems that there just isn't much professional career stability these days outside of a few occupations in the healthcare field. I got turned on to this blog last month by an unemployed attorney friend of mine. I went through a similar journey with a useless business degree, but at least didn't incur much debt. My only point was that it's pointless to let the scam take over your lives. While it might be therapeutic in the short term to come on a blog like this to complain, it's not going to be of much benefit. Unfortunately, we all know that most scammed people rarely receive justice, and in that regard this law school scam won't be any different. It's best just to try to find a way to go with life and let it be before blogs like this eat you up and make you bitter.

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  39. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  40. Again, 2:33, maybe you missed it the first time. I can accept that I was scammed, I can accept that I was duped, I will even accept some responsibility for going to law school in the late 1990s when I should have stayed and worked serving food-where I had no debt. What I cannot accept is the debt payment I have to pay every month with no job. I would easily move on provided I did not have to PAY THE FUCKING DEBT. The government programs are crappy, they cannot be trusted for various reasons discussed here time and time again.

    If, in your mind, 100K is not that hard to pay back, why don't you fucking try it. I owe that much but did not even REMOTELY borrow that much.

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  41. Today in Connecticut, I was asked by a potential client how much a simple will cost. After I clarified that there were no trusts involved I said $350. She then informed me that her friend had gotten one done for $75 (though I don't know if it was by a lawyer or a paralegal) I smiled and said, "then you better hire them, I can't beat that price".

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  42. @2:05PM

    You must realize that the legal system is comprised of two castes: BigLaw and the rest of the dregs. The ABA and the legal education system protects and advocates for Biglaw while shitting on shitlaw solo practitioners. The ABA and the law schools don't care that there is a bloodbath competitive market for shitlaw practice areas and relish on the MadMax Beyond Thunderdome direction that the legal profession is heading in. Their attitude is more combatants will make for a more entertaining battle royale.

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  43. "Justice"...

    This basically confirms to me 100% that I was ripped the fuck off by attending law school. And what is worse, I literally had to beg my law school to take my money a decade ago. I am fucking disgusted that I had to BEG to be a victim of a well-orchistrated SCAM.

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  44. "We are creating indentured servitude with Federal tax dollars."

    That tells you everything you need to know.

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  45. Access Group has now hung up on me twice.

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  46. ACS sucks donkey balls.

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  47. "File a qui tam False Claims Act"

    I believe to have standing a law school insider must be the plaintiff ("relator") not a student.

    I'd prefer to be wrong about that, so if anyone knows authority to the contrary please let me know.

    ChicagoDePaul

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  48. "ACS sucks donkey balls."

    Amen brother.

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  49. Do you think that JDPainter hurts the movement more than helps it?

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  50. The education industrial complex is too big to fail. The establishment will not touch it.

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  51. Every big thing fails. For example, the goiter failed when iodized salt entered the picture.

    World Traveling Law Student | 18%

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  52. Can someone please tell me what occupation/profession/job that a young person should go into to have middle class long term employment? Medicine is a bubble about to pop. Finance is already poppling. STEM is shifting overseas to following manufacturing. What can you do?

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  53. start a farm and practice self-sustainability and community oriented commerce

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  54. @5:57 - There are none. Repeat, NONE.

    There are many reasons one could point to - globalization, technological change, expanding workforce, legal and illegal immigration - but the bottom line is, across the economy the mid-tier is disappearing rapidly.

    Pick a field, and it'll probably be the same: the top 1% or so will do great, the next 5-10% will do ok, and the rest get whatever's left.

    You ask what you can do? Simple: be the very best of the best, and you'll be fine. Doesn't matter what area you choose, just be the cream that rises to the top. Fail, and be prepared to fall a long long way...

    Enjoy and good luck in the New Economy!

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  55. Get an indergraduate degree in Accounting and work toward a CPA.

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  56. 1:32 PM--thx for the feedback (Im a guy BTW)--Im not sure why I follow this issue so closely. As others have noted it can get repetetive--law school is a scam for most, Cooley is a sick joke, and nothing will change until the public is educated and many law schools shut down. I guess I read and comment here and at TTR because I believe in honesty and fair play, and am stunned by the lack of such at the highest echelons of our "profession."

    3:29 PM--agree 100%, the ABA and state bar associations (to which we all have to belong to practice, no choice in the matter) are dominated by biglaw partners and the law school establishment. Both factions benefit from the current scam--the law school faction for obvious reasons, the big firms because the glut of attorneys crams down the salaries they have to pay. The only impetus for change is when law school enrollment plummets (already in progress) and the massive rates of student loan defaults are impossible to ignore.

    7:01 PM--Yes, there is no secure professional/graduate degree to bet on these days. Even medical school is a gamble with Obamneycare. By definition such an endeavor takes several years' investment in time and money and it is just not possible to predict where the economy will go in 3-5 years regarding whatever choice one makes. Maybe we should all just try to enjoy life, find love and fulfillment outside any profession (embrace our spouse/partner, family, friends, hobbies), and try to live more simply and economically whatever we decide to do.

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  57. It's safe to say this judge probably is out of touch with current reality. Judges in general are pretty insulated--they have job security (lifetime, in the case of federal judges), guaranteed salary and pensions, extensive armed protection by law enforcement officers, high public esteem, and are accorded great deference. This particular judge, I suppose (Im too lazy to look it up) went to law school 40 or 50 years ago, when you could pay your way through law school with a part-time job and were guaranteed a high-paying legal job upon graduation.

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  58. Michigan is full of outcome determinative judges. Maybe there should be a blog entry as to whether Michigan is the worst state to practice law.

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  59. In re bankruptcy:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444330904577539263257191398.html?mod=hp_opinijon

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  60. A federal judge said a law school could not reasonably be relied upon. Isn't that a victory?

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  61. I agree with 7:15. If you want to get a MAcc from a top school, that would also probably be okay, and several of the good MAcc programs don't require you to have been an accounting or even a business undergrad.

    The thing about accounting is that the AICPA is a guild like the ABA failed to be. The accounting bodies make sure there's always change going on in the accounting rules, which means CPAs continue to be valuable. They make sure that getting a CPA is hard with the 150 hour rule now (and probably a master's requirement before too long), a 2 year experience requirement, and a battery of tests with a substantially lower pass rate than the bar exam. The hours can suck and you won't be pulling in millions a year, but if you hook up with the Big Four you'll be making six figs before too many years. More importantly, they're hiring and the job security is pretty solid with a lot of opportunities to jump ship for companies after a couple years.

    Do accounting.

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  62. MacK may be much criticised on this board, but reading this comment over at Prawf's had me laughing for a good minute:

    "I think you need to absorb one little item of information to ask whether the prediction of law school closings is ridiculous, 47,000 JDs a year, 20,000 odd law jobs. You may make snarky comments about "my crowd," but if I am right I may be reading your resumé before long."

    Pure awesome-sauce.

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  63. The only thing is, he is almost assuredly wrong.

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  64. "A federal judge said a law school could not reasonably be relied upon. Isn't that a victory?"

    The opinion basically pwns Cooley's reputation and their rankings, but for some reason that is not satisfying if they're allowed to get away with fraud that a securities issuer, consumer product manufacturer and a host of other parties could not get away with.

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  65. There are several websites on accounting salaries. Looks like $50,000 to $60,000 to start with $100,000 after ten years for CPAs. Also the chance of CPAs to go much higher as CEO or CFO of a firm.

    And it is a day job with weekends and holidays off so you can actually have a family life, which can be difficult with some professions such as nursing, medical doctors, police, airline pilots, ect.

    The top accounting schools are plain vanilla universities with reasonable in-state tuition.

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  66. @4.28 - MacK may have an almost-stereotypical level of the ol' fighting spirit in him, but I'd not write him off yet. There almost certainly will be closures unless the government steps in to rescue the worst-hit of the schools - just like the banks back in '07-'08.

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  67. "There are several websites on accounting salaries."

    PUTS MY FUCKING HEAD IN MY HAND, AND BEMOANS THE STUPIDITY - COMPLETE AND UTTER IDIOCY OF PEOPLE TODAY. WHAT FUCKING PART OF THE OPINION STATING THAT SUCH WEBSITES ET AL. ARE BULLSHIT DID YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? HOLY SHIT! YOU CAN BEAT PEOPLE OVER THE HEAD WITH A POINT, REPEATEDLY, AND THEY STILL WON'T GET IT.

    Warning label: "Cigarettes kill."
    Idiot like 5:05: "Wow that's a pretty label, I want a cigarette."

    Damn people are idiots.

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  68. Have you considered professional help? Better yet, you really should get help. ASAP.

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  69. 3:29 PM--agree 100%, the ABA and state bar associations (to which we all have to belong to practice, no choice in the matter) are dominated by biglaw partners and the law school establishment. Both factions benefit from the current scam--the law school faction for obvious reasons, the big firms because the glut of attorneys crams down the salaries they have to pay.

    The bolded point is not consistent with my experience in practice. BigLaw salaries are driven by competition among BigLaw firms for a pool of candidates that will always be very small -- the best of the best. The huge excess of graduates from non-elite schools has no effect on this.

    As for the real reason why BigLaw has done nothing about the scam -- I think it's because most of BigLaw doesn't know about it, and to the extent BigLaw does know, BigLaw doesn't care. To BigLaw, any school below about the top 25 barely even exists.

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  70. Yes, I need help because you're a hopeless fucking moron.

    Idiot reads opinion bemoaning the lack of credibility of "statistics" on jobs. His next thought? "Hey there's a website saying accountants make good money. Let me go to accounting schools."

    Your problem is that you're a fucking moron.

    That's all the Cooley should say, "Our nation is filled with a bunch of fucking morons and our court system does not have the time nor energy to remedy their idiocy. Suffer for your mistake you dumb bitch assholes. Hopefully Cooley taught you something. That is all."

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  71. I think you should choose your next career without any research at all. Don't go to any websites, don't research the field, don't talk with anyone actually in the field. Just like you chose law school! I'm sure the results will be different this time. Good luck paying back those loans.

    I don't have any loans, by the way. I do have several graduate level accounting courses, though. But no law school courses, unless you count a "business law" course taught in my MBA program.

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  72. "I think you should choose your next career without any research at all. Don't go to any websites, don't research the field, don't talk with anyone actually in the field. Just like you chose law school! I'm sure the results will be different this time. Good luck paying back those loans."

    Hey dumbfuck, THAT'S HOW PEOPLE PICKED CAREERS FOR FUCKING THOUSANDS OF YEARS BEFORE ALL THESE BULLSHIT "STATISTICS" WERE INVENTED.

    No one owes you perfect information. So go fuck yourself, you stupid idiot and be thankful that Cooley taught you the most important lesson in life which is that no one gives a shit if you fucked up or got pwned.

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  73. @FOARP Oh, I never said there will be no school closures. I just said that the odds that Mack would be taking a CV from some unknown person ( (who may not really have been a professor at all) are not as great as his boastful fantasy suggested. In fact, in this day and age, no one-- not even the all knowing, all seeing MacK--can be sure that he/she is 100 percent safe. Most people know that by now.

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  74. Idiot: "Let me go and rely on these, ummm, stahticstiks published by an organization who has every incentive to twist them"

    Idiot: "Oh noes they lied to me. Those bastards. I know the courts will get me revenge."

    No that's not how America works, bitch. In America if you get pwned you get pwned. Next time try not to be stupid.

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  75. Pretty sloppy work by Plaintiffs to file under MCPA when fed. court has already said MCPA didn't apply to education, specifically in an earlier cause against Cooley. Not that they had reasonable alternatives, but still pretty sloppy to not gauge expectations to reflect that prior decision. Not that that precedent seems kind of crazy to me. Would it apply to all undergrad cases? Seems at that point the court would make the same mistake of talking about the end product instead of what the individual was actually using it for.

    So in the end, only a person who went to Cooley just for fun, could make a claim for the employment statistics being misleading? How would you get past standing issues if you didn't rely on those? According to the courts analysis an individual couldn't sue a Chrysler dealership if they bought the Sebring to start their Amway business? Is that really what the Michigan legislature intended?

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  76. *doesn't seem kind of crazy*

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  77. lol at 9:08 an unemployed loser who is scared shitless to call one of his professors and complain - never mind filing a lawsuit - trying to find fault with a clasa action attorney's work product.

    please shut the hell fuck up.

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  78. ^^^ Strelnikov, you fergots to log in.

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  79. Accountant in Big 4 audit here responding to the posters above who think there's a ton of gold at the end of the accounting rainbow.
    The pay stinks at the Big 4. It's Big Law hours for half the year and the other half is 60 hours a week average. Your hourly rate comes to about $15 an hour. Only about 1% of associates ever become partner.

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  80. Wage is usually raised on the experience of candidate.

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  81. Here's the bottom line - if you decide to attend Cooley, you get what's coming to you. The Cooley name is 100% toxic in the legal community. Everyone knows the name Cooley, and it isn't a good connotation. You will not get a good job coming out of this school. In fact, you will be lucky to find ANY legal job coming out of Cooley. If you want to go through life as an unemployed debt slave and constantly having to justify why you attended such crap hole law school, then by all means attend this dump. Get a list of the NALP firms, go to their websites and search the attorney biographies by law school. If you find a single Cooley grad at any of these firms, I would be quite surprised. Even lower level firms have no respect for Cooley. Essentially, you will be doing one of four things as a graduate of Cooley: (1) working as a solo, (2) working as a document reviewer, (3) not working in the legal field or (4) maybe doing an unpaid internship. The best you can hope for is working for a small shit shop in Michigan doing unsophisticated work. Again, if you are trying to "convince" yourself to attend this school, you deserve what you get. Listen to the people on these blogs, this school is toxic and needs to close down ASAP.

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