Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Baby boom

I have a piece in Salon about the new generation gap, with several references to the law school scam.


  1. PC, your link seems to be bad.

    Here's the article:


  2. Three posts in one day, including a published letter AND an attack on babyboomers? #bestdayever.

  3. Came here to post this. Thanks for linking to the TLS thread. Boomers may not ever get the hate. At least they are going to start understanding that the hate exists.


    Thank LawProf!


    PS. Boomers please post your responses. I am interested in what you think.

  4. "Boomers may not ever get the hate. "

    Actually I've have had several hall-type conversations about you, ~boomer_hater, and as it turns out I can't find GenX or GenY folks who "get [understand] the hatred" you exhibit for boomers, either.

    So I'm wondering who it is that represents the generational outliers - the people I talk to routinely, or you?

    Could be I live in some sort of magical bubble, insulated from "real" millennials, but it really doesn't look like the Truman Show from in here.

    Good day.

  5. I somewhere between a Boomer and a Millennial, a Gen X'er I suppose. I enjoyed the Campos piece in Salon. I also enjoyed the Boomer Dad meme http://www.quickmeme.com/Baby-Boomer-Dad/?upcoming. It's funny stuff. But, it is not a path forward.

    Look, this tribalism bullshit isn't going to get us anywhere. If you ever drift to an "us & them" world view, you've got a problem.

    You can blame the Boomers all you want. But you will be wasting your time. Do you think there is a magic light switch somewhere that the Boomers can just flip and fix everything? Are you fucking high? Plenty of those Boomer folks saw their retirement accounts and home values plummet in recent years. Some have delayed retirement, or seriously revised their expectations downward. It ain't all rosey for the Boomers.

    We're all tied into this. Stop drawing lines in the sand, compartmentalizing everyone, and blaming the folks who aren't standing within your own little piece of that Venn diagram.

  6. This firestorm is just starting. So glad your little world hasn't been affected yet. Maybe everyone you know has a job and a future or has little debt.

    Just because the people around you haven't heard about this, or maybe aren't willing to talk to you about it, doesn't mean it isn't happening.

    It is funny that an anecdotal denial of what Campos is saying is the best you can come up with.

    Got any substance to back up the idea that boomers haven't screwed up and the situation they are leaving millenials isn't all their fault?


  7. This worship of the individual started under Reagan and is playing out to its extreme. Why isn't your generation organizing? You have all the tools of technology at your disposal. Why aren't you pushing back politically? Why are you allowing the crazies to set the political agenda? How is bitching on a board helping? "I'm first!" really? And I don't consider myself a boomer. My parent's generation are the boomers.

  8. 10:41, WTF was the Occupy Movement? Was that not enough organizing for you?

    1. What was accomplished by OW? Did the needle even move?

  9. "It is funny that an anecdotal denial of what Campos is saying is the best you can come up with."

    I'm really sorry for your circumstances and wish you the best of luck in the future. From reading your posts, I am sure you are going to need all the luck you can muster. You seem to have trouble with logic.

    What I provided was obviously an anecdote. It was presented precisely as an anecdote. I congratulate you on your perspicacity in recognizing it for what it is - an anecdote. Except you missed the really obvious part.

    It was not presented as an argument about Campos's post. It did not purport to be. It was, exactly as stated, about YOU. The folks in my "little world" (not going to "Go MacK on you", but I travel a lot... ...so it ain't so little - how `bout your world?) don't understand your extreme blinding hatred, either.

    Like I said, good luck with that.

  10. Oh by the way, for people who feel sorry for me. Are you the same people who told me my Mom didn't love me enough?

    I graduated from a T6 school and am starting in the corporate department of a V6 firm in a few months. You won't be hearing from me at all soon because of long vacation and then work.
    So I am trying to get my points in now.

    Oh and I have no debt either.

    Unlike boomers, just because I am doing well, that doesn't mean that I am not furious at you on behalf of my generation.

    Save your pity and your pressure on me to leave this thread. Why don't you propose some solutions .


  11. From following the threads, I think there was precisely one post commenting about parental love. Other than the number of times you yourself have brought it up subsequently, I mean.

    You're starting to come through a little thick, though. Are you actually a troll?

    If so, congratulations on your troll successes.

    If not, well, good luck as noted above.

  12. "This firestorm is just starting."

    What firestorm?

  13. No, I am not a troll. I feel I have to lay it on thick. Perhaps it has been too thick for your liking, but like I said I've only got at most another couple of days to post here. If you can feel my outrage at the way my generation has been fucked up by the boomers. then I am satisfied.

    And, yes, my entire family is offended by someone claiming that I wasn't loved enough because it is so ridiculous. I'm sure something like that wouldn't bother you at all.

    Good luck to you too!

  14. T6, V6, zero debt, and still angry? Dude.

  15. Hey, Boomer Hater, congrats on all your successes. Now what you need to do is tell your generation the hard truth: everyone is not equal, there are winners and losers and always have been. The fact is that at least 50% of those who obtained a J.D. never should have been let into the game in the first place. It may be because they had lower intelligence, or came from lower SES backgrounds, or were incapable of critical thinking; but they were never going to practice law in a meaningul way. Either they were delusional or were deluded by others.

    If there's a problem with the Boomers, it's that so many of them drank the Koolaid about the supposed equality of all and the absolute value of diversity to the common good. Sing Kumbaya and let the utopia unfold. I call bullshit on the post-modern rejection of objective truth. The realist acknowledges that there have always been winners and losers. Some few of the former are thrust down. Some few of the latter claw their way up. But it's been a pyramid all through human history.

  16. 10:36:

    I used to think as you do, then I realized the following:

    1) I would ally myself with any generation or any group but NOT the baby boomers. They care only about themselves and their life pattern in the academic, professional, and political world have proven this fact. 55 and 60 are they average ages for Congressional members in the House and Senate. We are now looking at year 21 of BB presidents. Things are fucked up.

    2) There are good baby boomers. My parents are an example. The problems is, the 95% of the rest that give the baby boomers a bad name.

    3) Finally, the baby boomers have been impacted by the hard times (home values, retirement accounts) but here is the key: they have homes and retirement accounts. The Xers and Yers don't!!! Yet, we have the non-dischargeable debt.

    Again, this division is not good but the lines of division have to be drawn around and behind the baby boomers. They are a blight on the system. I would include everyone but them in any scenario.

  17. 11:15:

    Or maybe there were not enough jobs to go around, asshole. No matter how hard someone networks, or no matter how smart they are, if there are not enough jobs to go around, guess what, there are not enough jobs to go around.If every law grad networked, had an IQ of 160, worked hard, and was personable, still HALF would be unemployed.


  18. "I feel I have to lay it on thick. ... ... If you can feel my outrage ... then I am satisfied."
    - I can see your outrage. I just don't frankly get it, and neither do my other x-y crowd folk, not the way you lay it on anyway. Are things pretty bleak now? Yep. Were they bleak after the folks born in 1890-1910 completely wrecked (and I do mean completely) their economy? Yep. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? (But I digress.)

    "(i) And, yes, my entire family is offended by someone claiming that I wasn't loved enough... (ii) I'm sure something like that wouldn't bother you at all."
    - (i) Your entire family was offended. Ell_OH_Ell. Seriously, it sounds like your "entire family" then is as unhinged as you are. Guess you come by it honestly!
    - (ii) Well, having grown up a ward of the state, I wouldn't actually know much about that at all.

    Like I said, good luck.

  19. visit: www.studentdebtwar.org

  20. LP, I have to object to your reference to Midnight Train to Georgia, in discussing the likely prospects of an Emory student who moves to Nebraska.

    In the song Midnight Train to Georgia the man has moved to LA in pursuit of his dreams of stardom. Had the Emory professor told jobless students that the lack of jobs also means lack of opportunity costs in pursuing their dreams, then the reference would have been proper (and her advice would have been more sound).

    Instead, she is telling students to resign themselves to a life of compromise and mediocrity. The more appropriate song reference might be Coldplay's Viva La Vida.

    Also, it's worth remembering that in Midnight Train to Georgia, the man is not wholly defeated when he packs up and moves back home. He moves back home with a woman who loves him. It's unlikely an Emory student moving out to a small town in Nebraska will be so lucky.

  21. BL1Y,
    For those going out to small town NE, mix in some Midnight at The Oasis, and take their camel (or sheep) to bed...

  22. All the bitching and moaning isn’t going to save anyone, boomer or millennial. The pieces are set, and the death blow is already here.

    The country has been sold out in favor of internationalism. The investor class and a few middle management people think it is to their benefit for this to happen. They look smugly and callously by as the economic future of this country goes down a toilet. In their hearts, they believe they will pocket a large portion of the capital value associated with our traditional standard of living as it is outsourced. In their hearts, they believe they will be insulated from this economic malaise. In their hearts, and by application of a utilitarian’s logic, most of them believe the American people deserve this fate, as the benefits bestowed to third world justify our economic demise. To our faces they tell us international trade benefits everyone.

    Maybe they are right. Maybe we had too much and it needed to be taken away so that the billions in the third world could rise to a higher standard of living as we go down. Maybe the investor class members and their servants will be protected from this harm, as some semblance of Western power may still survive to put a check on the totalitarianism and corruption that exists in the countries currently benefiting from this trade imbalance. Hell, maybe corruption and totalitarianism will end because of this gamble.

    And if those maybes all play out, then it was all for the best. America will resemble more of a third world country, but over 2 billion people will rise out of poverty to live a better life, and in the process, a new uber wealthy global class will emerge.

    But what happens if they are wrong? What happens if Lenin’s prescription of giving the capitalist enough rope to hang himself is finally being taken seriously by some very, very, very bad people? What happens if the present militaristic docility of the emerging nations, combined with the short-sightedness of our investor class (a class currently governed by men born into power) and the cultural relativism proffered by the Left, is nothing more than an illusion?

    I don’t know. But we will find out soon enough.

    Regardless of all that, the younger generation should learn from the Boomers: if you vote, you get stuff. If not, you are fucked. So get jobs that involve forcing the politicians to pay you, and I think we all know what those jobs are, don’t we? Everything else is going out the window.

    Good luck.

    1. 100% agree. When you live through some of this you gain perspective.

  23. @11:15,

    Yes, there will always be winners and losers, and yes society will always look like a pyramid. However, the source of all social strife is to determine what that pyramid looks like. Will the top of the pyramid primarily consist of Bill Gates, Jobes, Ford, Tesla, etc.? Or will it consist of parasites? Will the top exist because it benefits the bottom, irrespective of the motives of the members of the top? Or will those at the top seek to enslave the bottom merely because they are at the top (or were born there)?

    The hallmark of this nation is social mobility by productivity and innovation. Remove that from the equation, and you are going to have a very serious problem, irrespective of what rationalization you may apply.

  24. Looking forward to reading it, as usual. Thank you for your work on this topic Professor.

  25. Wow, 12:09, good camou. Didn't realize it was you until I got to the very end and read, "if you vote, you get stuff. ... get jobs that involve forcing the politicians to pay you, and I think we all know what those jobs are, don’t we?"

    Sing ittogetherwithme, People:

    "Oooh... I'm a Copper;
    He's a Copper;
    She's a Copper;
    We're a Copper;
    Wouldntyaliketobea Copper too;
    Bea Copper, drink Dr. Copper"

  26. Most boomers and even some gen-Xers have no real conception that the rate of increase in college costs has far, far, far outstripped the rate of inflation during the same period. Their failure to grasp this is probably at the root of 90% of the clueless things they say about higher ed.

  27. "You'll never take me alive, copper!"

    *fires Tommy gun*

  28. 1:05,
    Agreed, very sneaky of him/her.

  29. The reality is that most baby boomers are not particularly wealthy and a good segment are not even solidly middle class. The people being demonized on this blog are really the upper professional class of baby boomers which is probably less than 10 percent of that generation. Are there clueless and arrogant and disconnected wealthy baby boomers? Absolutely. But this isn't unique to their generation. Most generations are selfish and earn what they can for themselves. That's just human nature. You cannot blame people for the time period that they were born into. Anyways, most people on these boards are somewhat unbalanced and storytellers. Some guy claiming he is mad because he graduated t6 and is going to work for six figures and has no debt? That doesn't even make the least sense. There's a lot of useless complaining here from what seems like borderline people. It's not really a surprise most people here can't find a job. The majority of scambloggers seem to have personality issues and aberrant social behavior judging from the posts.

    1. Assuming he was telling the truth....

  30. Look: people are assholes. It's just that there were more people in the boomer generation, so there's more assholes.

  31. 1:30, that's just a convenient excuse to bash boomers. I'm at least 20 years young removed from being a boomer so I'm impartial to their generation. Most baby boomers were in occupations that got offshored and lost work the same as what's happening to the legal profession currently. Do you think all baby boomers were CEO's and surgeons and partners in corporate law firms? The majority of baby boomers have never earned more then 50-60k annually in their lives as sad as that may sound. There's actually a lot of work currently and the economy is picking up but people would rather sit on here and complain than take personal responsibility. A lot of these people have mental health issues and I wouldn't be surprised if they couldn't secure a job even in the best economy. Now, the cost of higher and legal education is another issue. The exploding cost should be the real issue where previous generations had an undeniable advantage.

  32. - "Anyways, most people on these boards are somewhat unbalanced"
    - "Some guy ... doesn't even make the least sense. "
    - " a lot of useless complaining here"
    - " seems like borderline people"
    - "not a surprise most people here can't find a job"
    - " majority of scambloggers seem to have personality issues"
    - "aberrant social behavior".

    Wait, what is is you are trying to say here?

    Don't hold back, man. Speak yer mind.

  33. @ 1:38 PM

    I nominate boomer_hater as the premier asshole of his own generation.

  34. 1:48, honestly, there's a lot of legitimate gripes here, but complaining only takes you so far in life. I mean there's guys who post pictures of feces constantly and depressive characters who let their debt balloon to 400k. People have to admit that the average law school graduate doesn't act like this.A few people on other blogs admit to having social problems and not being able to date women and just generally not well adjusted in life. Then there's a strange admiration of a professor who probably makes six figures who rails against the "scam" of his own occupation. And in the end, it's just another day and another post and more time goes on. Then you repeat the cycle the next day with a new post saying the same thing. Doesn't seem all that productive. I don't mean to sound like I don't think there's some normal and legitimate people here but I know a lot of law graduates and none display any of the characteristics or complaints of people here. The one constant complain is the debt but that's in general for all higher education costs today.

  35. The idiot who posted at 1:36 pm is a piece of trash who cannot grasp reality.

    That was a great piece in Salon. This should be required reading for all citizens.

  36. @ 1:36,

    Son, you are not going to get away with that shit here. The wealthy boomers sold the country out; and politically, the less wealthy boomers stood by and permitted the country, its political institutions, and its social institutions to be sold out.

    You can spout that BS about the 60k a year boomer not having any power all day long. The fact of the matter is that they could have taken a hard stance against internationalism, which has obliterated this country, and potentially, could lead to a third world war. They didn’t.

    The Greatest Generation and their predecessors stood up to self-made robber barons and formed unions when such a thing was unheard of. The boomers let a bunch of silver-spoon financiers sell the country out for peanuts and without a fight.

    They didn’t take a stand because i) they always thought (and think) bad decisions will not affect them until the ill effects are at their door and ii) they were/are the most self-centered, (not merely the most selfish), generation in the history of America, such that they did and will always pursue immediate gratification (even when they know what will happen in the long run).

    Long term considerations? Fuck that. This is the generation of it feels good now, do it.
    And that’s what makes them different from every other generation.

    It’s true that every other generation’s members are also mostly selfish and greedy, but no other generation has been so self-centered and so short-sighted. That’s why the boomers are in debt to their eye balls, and that is why the country that gave them everything was stolen from them and their successors. The politicians and their friends on Wall Street saw that the Boomer generation would give up everything if you just showed them a good time for a few years while everything got leveraged to the hilt.

    And that corruption is not merely limited to its less successful members, you can get a taste for this generation based on what its most successful members have done, i.e. sell out the country that permitted their success. Even the robber barons of old would have known better than to voluntarily abdicate American hegemony TO A FUCKING COMMUNIST COUNTRY for a few years of short term profits.

    Why? Not because they were nice guys, not because they were altruistic, and not because they gave a shit about anyone but themselves and their own. They would never have done such a thing because they would have known that, in the end, it meant doom for them too.

    Yet, the generation of if it feels good, do it now, is rotten from top to bottom, and we will continue the awful consequences of said rot.

  37. 2:18: GOLD STAR.

  38. See people will complain about you if they think you are a failure and then complain about you if you are a success. I guess I can't be mad on behalf of all the people I know who have been screwed over, just because I am doing well.

    It is probably typical of boomers that they think that if a person has been successful they won't speak up on behalf of their friends. There are people from my school who don't have jobs and won't get jobs. But I guess because I have a job I shouldn't care about them.

    I can't see any point to commenting on this blog any further. I admit I'm surprised that my viewpoint got a heated response. So have fun talking to each other boomers.

    Still, I got people to think about this issue and LawProf wrote an article about it so I guess that is something.

    I would rather the blog focus on the law school scam than on my family, my job, my debt or whether I'm an asshole.


  39. LawProf: What have you got against Kenny Loggins? Caddyshack and Lampoon's Vacation soundtracks were some pretty strong stuff.

  40. @ 1:45 P.M./Leiter

    Whatever let's you sleep soundly at night.

  41. I am neither a boomer, nor a millenial, but I strongly disagree with this statement:

    "Many millennials will be happy to inform you that what they would love to do is to acquire pretty much any job that pays enough to support a modest middle-class lifestyle, while featuring such European-style luxuries as healthcare benefits and occasional vacation days."

    I realizing I'm relying on anecdotes here, but from the millenials I've come across (particularly outside of law school, maybe with just a lib arts BA), it is not just a job they are seeking, but also a "purpose." (i.e. many (again, non-law, recent grads are turning their noses up at corporate work because they do not find it fulfilling.

  42. 1:36PM said:

    "The majority of scambloggers seem to have personality issues and aberrant social behavior judging from the posts."

    Yes, but when people are pushed into a corner financially after so many years they will most likely crack mentally.

    That is human nature.

    When the stock market crashed in 1929, people jumped out of windows, and the cameras followed them all the way to the ground.

    The disgusting woodstock concert was just a way to pave the way to legalize government sponsored Usury.

    Anyway, and as for the boomer circus, have a look at this absolutely bizarre manifesto of the shitty and greedy boomers. Probably the worst and most selfish and narcissistic generation America has ever produced.

    And now all the younger people that the boomers have ripped off for life are expected to wipe their old incontinent asses? I think not.

    Anyway, here is the really creepy video. Enough to make anyone's skin crawl:


  43. @2:18: Isolationist much? That post is about two steps from full fledged xenophobia

  44. "@ 1:45 P.M./Leiter. Whatever let's you sleep soundly at night."

    Oh, cutsie.

    Anyone you disagree with is automatically dismissed as the demon Buzz Lietner.


  45. "I can't see any point to commenting on this blog any further. ... So have fun talking to each other boomers."

    What's that phrase? Oh yeah, "there ya go again".

    What boomers other than LP, DJM, MacK post here? You don't like that all younger than boomers don't automatically subscribe to your position, so you just casually label everyone who disagrees "boomers" and march off into the sunset?

    Okeh, I guess.

    Anyway, best fortunes to you in the new job upcoming.

  46. @2:54,

    Deliciously Boomeresque. Yes, if you are not for outsourcing a significant portion of your economy to a corrupt and communist nation whose regime has killed tens of millions of people, and as a result, becoming dependent on and empowering said nation, well then you are an isolationist.

    If you are not for open and unrestrained trade with every single nation on earth, no matter how corrupt or dangerous said nation may be, well, then you are an isolationist. This remains true even if the other nation is imposing tariffs on you (directly and indirectly by currency manipulation).

    To the boomer, every social and political issue, no matter how serious, can be twisted to relate to an established political-correctness-like archetype in a fashion that furthers personal profit in the short term.

  47. @ 2:53. "When the stock market crashed in 1929, people jumped out of windows, and the cameras followed them all the way to the ground."

    Oh yeah, I remember Vice President Biden telling us about how "when the stock market crashed, Franklin D. Roosevelt got on the television and didn't just talk about the, you know, the princes of greed. He said, 'Look, here's what happened - people jumped out of windows, and the cameras followed them all the way to the ground."

    Ahem. May want to check this link. The stereotype of the mass suicides (filmed on camera or otherwise) is as mythical as lemmings running over a cliff. (You do realize that also is not true, right?)


  48. "I can't see any point to commenting on this blog any further."

    I notice you didn't say that you won't comment on this blog any further. Could you please clarify that point, just so I don't get my hopes up for no reason?

  49. ^^^ OK, tickle toes, and fair enough. But now go through some of these and dismiss em :)

    "That’s not to say that a few failed investors, executives, etc., didn’t kill themselves in the wake of the crash. But the “Suicides” happened all around the country, didn’t necessarily involve jumping out the window, and for the most part didn’t take place immediately following the crash.

    * On Friday, November 8, J.J. Riordan, president of the County Trust Company, took a pistol from a teller’s cage at his bank, went to his home in downtown Manhattan, and shot himself. The news was suppressed until after the bank closed at noon Saturday, to avoid causing a run on the bank.

    * A vice president of the Earl Radio Corporation jumped to his death from the window of a Manhattan hotel. His suicide note read, “We are broke. Last April I was worth $100,000. Today I am $24,000 in the red.” But this happened in early October, weeks before the crash.

    * Jesse Livermore, perhaps the most famous of the Wall Street speculators, shot himself–but not until 1940.

    Several well-publicized suicides did fulfill the stereotype as with Winston Churchill, visiting New York, was awakened the day after Black Tuesday by the noise of a crowd outside the Savoy-Plaza Hotel. “Under my very window a gentleman cast himself down fifteen stories and was dashed to pieces, causing a wild commotion and the arrival of the fire brigade,” he wrote.

    In 1929, asphyxiation by gas was the most common method of doing oneself in, although there was considerable variety like the ones below.

    * The wife of a Long Island broker shot herself in the heart.

    * A utilities executive in Rochester, New York, shut himself in his bathroom and opened a wall jet of illuminating gas.

    * A St. Louis broker swallowed poison; a Philadelphia financier shot himself in his athletic club.

    * A divorcee in Allentown, Pennsylvania, closed the doors and windows of her home and turned on a gas oven.

    * In Milwaukee, one gentleman who took his own life left a note that read, “My body should go to science, my soul to Andrew W. Mellon, and sympathy to my creditors.”

  50. Serious questions: Why do you feel the need to blame a whole generation for what ails the world and why the seeming rush to claim victimhood? I genuinely fail to see the productivity of not expending every effort to better your lot in life and instead spending time wallowing in unmitigated anger at authority figures like law profs and bankers and pitying yourselves.

  51. Better to die with honor than to be a disgraceful burden on the American taxpayer.

    Every day I am alive I am costing the taxpayer at large, that hates me, money.

    If I could have declared bankruptcy when my student loan debt was a mere 200K I would have saved the taxpayer all the interest that has piled up since then.


    Dear God, I never meant to be a burden, and it seems that the ABA and the law schools are able to dictate how much of a financial burden they want to place on the public, whenever and wherever they choose, and all of this madness will never stop.

    Has history and Art and literature not shown by now that a life of deep shame and guilt is not worth living?



  52. Huh? Did Biden really say that? First, FDR wasn't President in 1929 -- Hoover was. And second, there was no television.

  53. ^^^ That was meant for 3:19.

  54. "I genuinely fail to see the productivity of not expending every effort to better your lot in life"

    Are you as really Salvador Dali surrealistically out of touch as you sound?

    Are you even aware that you are alive?

    Dear God wake up man, or crawl back under your complacent rock.

  55. @ 2:53 PM

    "The disgusting woodstock concert was just a way to pave the way to legalize government sponsored Usury."


  56. "A St. Louis broker swallowed poison; a Philadelphia financier shot himself in his athletic club."

    Is the athletic club the part that fits into the athletic supporter?

  57. 4:07 asks, "Huh? Did Biden really say that? First, FDR wasn't President in 1929 -- Hoover was. And second, there was no television."

    3:19 here. Yes, he actually said that. Not the part about cameras catching suiciding brokers, I added that. But the parts about FDR and TV, yep.

    Does it surprise you? I like good Ol' Joe - he's the kind of guy I'd love to just sit and have a few beers and listen to his history. That's one of my definitions of a great afternoon spent. But he is quite the gaffe machine. Most pols are, don't get me wrong - from Dan's idiocies to W's twisted malapropisms, to Al's sheer braggartry to 57 states and the Austrian language. But Joe's special.

  58. Well, 4:16PM

    Here is one theory:

    Pat Buchannan says, in so many words, that the Social Marxists and Communists that fled from Hitler set up camp here in the USA, and then made inroads into the American Universities.

    After that is was only a matter of a few years before the abuses of the American Experiment would culminate in a filthy and ridiculous Woodstock Circus.

    The late American Philosophy Professor, Allan Bloom, warned that a combination of what Tocqueville also warned against, combined with the corruption of German philosophical thought might end up producing an absolute creep like Mick Jagger and......

    yes and ho humm.....

    BTW, a fly seems to be rather annoyed and buzzing around here by the name of leiter, last I remembered :)

  59. @4:06 PM

    Is JD Painter Guy back? It sounds like it.

  60. @ 5:34

    I like him, too.

  61. @ 5:36

    Oh, I see...well that makes perfect sense.

    And yes, I am Brian Leiter. ;)

  62. ^^^ That's Buzz Leitner to you, plebian.

  63. @ 4:06, "Better to die with honor than to be a disgraceful burden on the American taxpayer."

    Bugger them guys. There is no honor in death. Only in striving. In striving there is honor. you don't even have to "win" or "succeed" in your striving.

  64. "Is JD Painter Guy back? It sounds like it."

    Thematically yes, but it's not his writing style...

  65. @ 6:02

    Erm...I'd take another look...pretty sure it is.

  66. @5:37PM

    No, just a guy, and not necessarily a painter.

    But, in my observation, the Conservatives are ALWAYS available to talk, and always accessible, to anyone, which is a major Right Wing strength.

    Ann Coulter is so top Credentialed, and so beautiful and intelligent and will walk like Joan of Arc into any place or University and at any time, as will Rush, And Hannity, Bill O'Reilly and Mark Levin, etc.

    I have reasons or rather theories for why the left does not do the same, and I am still waiting for such bravery from the left, and I am not inclined to think that it is because the left is lacking in the funds or desire of the right.

    If the truth be known, I am leaning left, but the Right has some damn good points to make, and I hope the upcoming elections will stir some lively and interesting and maybe even entertaining debates.

    What is the matter with you all?

    Don't you even want to listen to the debates?

    Too old? Too disillusioned? Too Uncaring? Too afraid?

    Let's hear what our political candidates, at all levels, have to say about us this year.

    Give them a prod, and tell them to do a good job.

    And then vote, with the leaden weighted heavy heart that I share.

    What else can I say?

  67. @6:05, with the addition of 6:08, I'll double down and say it's a JDPainterguy imitator.

    Which is weawwy, weawwy sad if correct...

  68. ^^^ Sorry, I poorly phrased my comment above. By "with the addition of 6:08", I meant, "now having also ready 6:08".

  69. Ladies and Gentlemen of Congress:

    The following quote is from the newly discovered papers of George Washington: 1774. Valley Forge, New Jersey:

    "Listen up Daddy-O:

    The Wonderful thing about this new American Political System is that it advances a just and a good society, and at the same time it is able to, for the first time in the history of the world, correct forseeable problems - such as the obvious law school scam - thereby surpassing the comparatively limited abilities of all hitherto imperfect governments."

    Goerge Washington

  70. @6:20PM

    Gosh, do you think so?

  71. @6:44PM

    Oh come on, 6:20PM is a cocker.

    A hard cocker.

    His whole problem is that he wants his brown eye, but he doesn't want to pay for it.

  72. My kids saw how awful it is for me to be a lawyer - because of the supply demand problem and the difficulty of working - and ran/ are running the other way when it came to career choices. They did not need to look at law school websites or employment statistics to know that being a lawyer is not a desirable career path today because of the supply demand imbalance. That being said, they are finding themselves. No one has yet worked in retail, although I heartily approve of that type of job if it is a stop gap measure to get them to another place. No generation gap and no baby boomer hatred. The only one who was scammed here was me because I went to law school when the supply and demand of lawyers were more balanced, and the imbalance has made any effort of mine to work over the last several years very precarious. In other words, the only one in my family so far that has a degree that really is not worth the paper it is printed on (and I am very well credentialed) is me.

  73. Hey, 7:00. There is plenty of generation gap, and plenty of boomer hatred. Just because you (a boomer) do not hate boomers, and think you have good reasons for not doing so, does not mean your reasons suck and the generation that can work a computer hates your generation.

  74. Campos, well done. Well done.

  75. In fact, at the top law schools the 9 month figures reflect a deterioration of the job market over the last three or four years that partly accounts for some of their problems. That being said, the job market for more experienced lawyers from top schools (go out 8 years or more) started deteriorating before then, as part of a systemic decline in employment in the legal profession, probably about 10 years ago. The more experienced employment date desperately needs to be publicized, because it it not only the bottom law schools that need to close. The top law schools need to trim their size drastically because there new grads are putting their 8+ year grads out of work. It is not until there is full disclosure of employment outcomes that this generational war will end. Half of the T14 grads are going to end up in the same boat as the fourth tiers until there is full disclosure made. Once full disclosure is made, at least people can plan better- get out of the legal profession while they are still young enough to build a career or understand exactly what their career options are.

  76. ...6:47 - - project much?

  77. 7:04- the problem is not boomers in general. In the legal profession, the problem is greedy law schools and a federal government and ABA that is enriching the greedy law schools at the expense of our younger generation and at the expense of a huge swath of lawyers from all generations who already graduated. If you don't believe this lawyer surplus has had a generally similar effect on lawyers at all level of experience as it has had at 9 months, you are not in reality. Problem is that the greedy law schools do not want to/ have to give us the data and the federal government could not care less about ruining people's lives with enormous non-dischargable debt for a useless degree for most people.

    All I can say to you is that you are lucky this happened when you are young and just starting out. So try and do your best to get out of your situation and into a better work situation. That will not happen overnight, and may take a long time. It takes years of trying and patience.

    Hopefully at some point along the way, the government does the right thing and discharges most or all of your debt for your useless law school education.

  78. It is amazing how super sensitive the old and crusty and supposedly correct thinking culture peddling boomers are about anything negative said about them.

    The now ancient and ugly and selfish and narcissistic boomers basically thought they were the first generation that was going to change humanity, and they failed miserably, and moreover placed their youngers in debt slavery for life perhaps by design.

    Pete Townsend argued about money before going onstage at woodstock and there was some kind of a crazy idiotic concert where Mick Jagger had hired the hells angels to beat the crap out of his audience.

    Enough said.

    The boomers suck.

    They wanted their MTV, and I want my Schandenfreude, and to see them as broke as I am now.

    Just kidding.

    But Oh! Satiricaly bashing the old fart Boomers is going to be so fun!

  79. Youth equals beauty and hope, and kindness.

    Boomers are old, and they all are mean, and they suck.

  80. @ 7:27

    Oh yeah??? Well, you're ugly and your mother dresses you funny!!!

  81. Through 70s, 80s, and 90s, the working class was progressively immiserated, but higher education usually led to a managerial job of some sort. So the default advice to a kid who was struggling was: stay in school.

    But the advice belongs to a different time. White collar jobs are being offshored or eliminated due to digitization and public sector austerity. So their is no white collar pot of gold at the end of the ever-more expensive higher education rainbow: just debt and frustration. The process that destroyed the American working class has now basically destroyed the American middle class.


  82. @ 7:19. Typical boomer response. "Let's hope the government will bail us out." Well the millennial generation has to live in a budget. It won't happen. The government is broke.

    And who ran the "greedy law schools?" That's right. Boomers.

  83. The people who ran the law schools may have been boomers, but they hurt most lawyers including boomers by creating the huge oversupply. The vast group of my boomer peers from the T6 are unemployed on account of the oversupply. The law schools, ABA and government are to blame$ I like you am a victim.

  84. Glad to see you're still pwning that "move to Nebraska" statement. It was outrageous on so many levels. Not only because it lied about the opportunity in Nebraska, but also because it painted Nebraska as some sort of sub-par state.

  85. I think for a lot of people the law degree is as DJM points out a sunk cost.

    A lot of people will be sunk and not get out of the debt, but probably some percentage of people will do well by getting out of legal early.

    What is so egregious is that the ABA is now considering accrediting foreign law schools, something that should be out of the question with the oversupply of lawyers. The ABA must be actively trying to destroy the legal profession.

  86. Why has X minus Y appointed himself the controller of the comments? Anyone can comment. x minus Y specializes in personal attacks rather than focusing on the substance of the blog post.

    Why so mad?

  87. "appointed himself the controller of the comments? Anyone can comment"

    Hyperventilate much?

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