Law Offices of David Anziska (New York, New York), Strauss Law PLLC (New York, New York), Law Offices of Frank Raimond (New York, New York), The Clinton Law Firm (Chicago, Illinois), Concepcion Martinez & Bellido LLP (Miami, Florida), Finkelstein Thompson LLP (Washington, D.C. and San Francisco, California), Kershaw, Cutter & Ratinoff LLP (Sacramento, California), and Stone & Magnanini LLP (Short Hills, New Jersey and New York, New York) announced today that they are seeking to file class action lawsuits challenging the post-graduate employment rates reported by the following twenty schools:
1. New England School of Law (Massachusetts)
2. Western New England University School of Law (Massachusetts)
3: Roger Williams University School of Law (Rhode Island)
4. Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law (New York)
5. Pace University School of Law (New York)
6. St. John’s University School of Law (New York)
7. Syracuse University College of Law (New York)
9. American University Washington College of Law (District of Columbia)
10. Stetson University College of Law (Florida)
11. University of Miami School of Law (Florida)
12. University of St. Thomas School of Law (Florida)
13. Loyola University Chicago School of Law (Illinois)
14. Valparaiso University School of Law (Indiana)
15. St. Louis University School of Law (Missouri)
16. Chapman University School of Law (California)
17. Loyola Marymount University Law School (California)
18. Pepperdine University School of Law (California)
19. Whittier Law School (California)
20. Seattle University School of Law (Washington)
The average debt load for 2009 graduates of these twenty schools is nearly $115,000. “Seventy-five law school graduates have already shown that they are willing to hold their schools accountable for the misrepresentations they may have made” stated Plaintiffs’ counsel David Anziska. “That is a good start, but there are tens-of-thousands of young lawyers saddled with massive debt and few job prospects. I truly believe that at the end of this process nearly every law school in the country will be sued.” The Law Offices of David Anziska is advising graduates of the above schools that they may have certain legal rights and should contact David Anziska at david@anziskalaw.com or visit www.anziskalaw.com to learn more.
In completely unrelated news.
NYU Law '08
In completely unrelated news.
NYU Law '08
Allegedly, the motion to dismiss by TJSL has been denied.
ReplyDeleteAaannd, Boom goes the Dynamite
ReplyDeletehttp://www.law.nyu.edu/news/REBUTTAL
ReplyDeleteResponse by NYU to earlier post/NY Post article.
In the end, these supposed "institutions of higher learning" are nothing more than business enterprises. Their tax-exempt status is merely a political designation, for tax purposes. I make little distinction between public, private, for profit or non-profit.
ReplyDeleteAs such, these profitable corporations - just take a look at their big-ass endowments and investment revenues - care VERY MUCH about their perception. They want the general public to view them as "august" institutions. Many, if not most, of these schools hire PR firms or have in-house PR shills - in order to deflect criticism or publish propaganda.
I have little faith in a legislative solution, on the student loan or law school governance front. However, as corporate entities, what do these bastard care about dearly?!?! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$! Perhaps, these suits will bear fruit, and truly hit these pigs where they will feel the effect.
@12:39 -- Thanks for that awesome news! I hope there's an opinion forthcoming. The settlement value of these cases just shot up.
ReplyDeleteThere is a lot of ammo against Pepperdine. They were extremely aggressive on many fronts in effort to raise their USN rank.
ReplyDeleteThere was a back-and-forth that went down a few years on Bob Morse of U.S. News's Morse Code blog between a prospective student and Pepperdine career services office professionals that basically established that Pepperdine administrators went back and strategically re-conducted/revised their employment survey data resulting in, you guessed it, better employment stats. This happened under Ken Starr's watch, I believe.
The attorneys may want to depose everyone in the Pepperdine Career services office from 2005 through 2009.
They might win this one...
I go to one of the school's on this list. I was wondering if any of you had any theories on how a public or successful lawsuit could have on my legal education.
ReplyDeletetell you what i love: the fact that there are some first tier-ish schools on that list. we're creeping up the status ladder here... how long before even bigger brand name schools realize that they are no longer safe? how long until one of them cracks and says, "screw it, tuition is now 20,000 dollars, all scholarships adjusted accordingly"-- ie 50 pct scholarship on the old number would be 10,000 off now. it's bound to happen. it's coming... it won't come from the tip top. it will come from a school closer to the rising tide.
ReplyDeletethis is awesome. this could put schools out of business. this is exactly what the (juris) doctor ordered.
In NYU's rebuttal:
ReplyDelete"Having trouble knowing what to believe? We have a proposal for Paul Campos: come audit our numbers."
I have an even better idea, allow Paul Campos to contact each and everyone of the relevant graduates and report his findings, as NYU says, to "the world." Anything less would be further obfuscation and hiding behind "statistics."
@Steven_C -- Maybe your tuition will go down in coming semesters.
ReplyDeleteMaybe they can hire a law graduate or two to housekeep the new condo?
ReplyDeleteResponding to a comment on today's earlier post, and with a Pepperdine twist: Another way to show increased costs is to look at the average debt of a school's graduates. The debt numbers incorporate scholarship aid, as well as differences in resident/nonresident tuition. Debt also includes living expenses, which gives a fuller picture of what students pay for their law school years. It's also interesting to note the percentage of students who borrow at different schools.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest drawback to the debt numbers is that it can be hard to find historical data; I'm working on that. But US News gives the current information (for a price, of course) and that's mind blowing in itself.
You know I like to pick on schools after a professor says something needlessly offensive, so let's look at Pepperdine. It's in Malibu and (just yesterday!) elevated to the first tier. What will three years in paradise cost? And what will it get you?
83.0% of the class of 2011 borrowed to attend Pepperdine law, and their law school debt averaged $125,423. That's a lot of debt for a 25-year-old. What are the job prospects?
If you go to Pepperdine's website, you'll find perky information about 2009--when outcomes were brighter all around the land. Never mind that other schools published 2010 statistics six months ago, or that 2011 statistics are now available internally. Pepperdine is still telling prospective borrowers about its 2009 class.
Not that Pepperdine tells prospective borrowers very much about the class of 2009. "95%" of them were employed nine months after graduation, but no information is available about PT/FT, JD required, employed by school, etc. Pepperdine does happily tell us that grads who entered private practice enjoyed an average salary of $113,200. The site offers no caveats about how many grads reported salary information; a reader, I think, could assume that this number represents salaries of ALL grads who went into private practice.
But US News, which now displays 2010 career info, paints an updated--and less rosy--picture of the average Pepperdine grad's prospects of paying off that loan. Nine months after graduation, 10% of the school's graduates had no job at all. Among the 184 who found work, 64% (118 grads) went to work for law firms. The median salary for those grads was $72,800-EXCEPT only 25% of grads in the private sector reported their salaries.
Do that math: 25% of 118 is 29.5. So, giving Pepperdine the benefit of the half grad, their private sector salary information is based on thirty graduates. Half of them (15) were making $72,800 or more. Eight (of those who reported!) were making $60,000 or less--the purported "25th percentile."
Knowing how reported salaries skew high, how public sector salaries are lower than private ones, and how law schools would disclose more positive info if they had it, the best we can say about Pepperdine is that fifteen members of the class of 2010 obtained jobs paying $72,800 or more. That's 7.4% of the class. Even at $72,800, it won't be easy to pay off more than $125,000 in debt. And what about the other 92.6% of the class? Some of them didn't have to borrow, but the majority did. The lucky 7.4%, in fact, may include a disproportionate number of those who got full-plus scholarships or had sufficient wealth to pay up front.
0Ls: That's a pretty grim financial investment.
"I must've hit it pretty close to the mark to get her all riled up like that, huh, kid?"
ReplyDelete- Han Solo
Does Colorado have faculty housing?
ReplyDeleteRe: Bored3L's link to the NYU reply...
ReplyDeleteAnyone else catch that NYU defends itself by saying that they participated in LRAP payments for those grads that they employed?
Isn't that the definition of a Pyramid scheme? I take out student loans to fund the law school's operating budget via tuition, and then they use my money to pay off someone else's debt. And presumably, the recipient's loans paid off their predecessors... it's never-ending.
WHO ARE THE NAMED PLAINTIFFS IN THE LOYOLA SUIT? I SWEAR I WOULD BE ONE IF I WASN'T SUCH A PUSSY BITCH. THANKS TO WHOEVER STUCK THEIR NECK OUT!!!
ReplyDeleteWhat law schools do to students make Ken Lay and Jeffrey Skilling look like teenagers goofing around with computers. Even Madoff didn't target the young.
ReplyDeleteMany of these indenturement factories are state sponsored and tax dollar supported. I can't wait until a politician grabs onto this! Law schools will replace the for-profits as the congressional punching bag.
E-mail your state/congressional reps!
You have to respect NYU for (a) taking Campos seriously and addressing the critique and (b) this line in their rebuttal to Campos:
ReplyDeleteHaving trouble knowing what to believe? We have a proposal for Paul Campos: come audit our numbers. We’ll show you a list of all NLJ 250 firms to which we sent associates in 2010 and 2011. Pick a reasonably sized sample from that group, and compare them to firm-verifiable data. Then let us, and the world, know what you find.
-------------------
I'm sure if lawprof could get a few volunteers he could do the audit, but the fact that NYU takes this stuff seriously enough to respond (unlike other schools who try to sweep it under the rug) speaks volumes about teh school's integrity.
I have an even better idea, allow Paul Campos to contact each and everyone of the relevant graduates and report his findings
ReplyDeleteOOOOOOH THIS WOULD BE AWESOME. But I don't think LawProf has the manpower for this.
@ThreadJockey It's turtles all the way down.
ReplyDeleteYNY!!!
ReplyDelete@2:25PM Surely, you can't be serious.
ReplyDeleteI am serious, and don't call me Shirley.
Yeshiva (home of Cardozo) is Anziska's undergraduate alma mater. Guess he won't be paying any alumni gifts out of his contingency fees.
ReplyDeleteWhat's awesome about Strauss, is that by actually doing something to fix this notorious problem he reminds us all of the ideal of a lawyer. It's kill a mockingbird stuff.
ReplyDelete2:18,
ReplyDeleteThat sounds more like a Ponzi scheme rather than a pyramid scheme.
I have been practicing law in the NYC metro area for 20 years. I haven't been in a coma or a time machine but when the fuck did these schools come into existence? I surely never heard of any of these schools, except Cardozo which will always be Yeshiva, and St. Johns, which was never really ever highly regarded. Stetson? Are you for fucking real? No wonder these kids are suing these schools. They got suckered into attending a brick and mortar law school that opened up and had no track record. Where was their due diligence? I am glad the NY judge laughed at the idea that the potential law school student was not an unsophisticated consumer. The problem is, these kids see sunshine, lollipops and rainbow futures when they should be focusing on reality. If you want to be a dreamer, you have to pay the piper.
ReplyDeleteWhy doesn't the rebuttal answer the question about the discrepancy in the numbers? People argued with great certainty that all firms report their numbers, explaining why it was crazy to think the would not. NYU says that a good number of them don't, and they are NY based firms. That would explain the issue at Columbia, or at any school that typically sends lots of associates to NY based firms. Is it true that the reports were not due in February and are, in fact, not due until the middle of March?
ReplyDelete12:39: TJSL filed a Demurrer and Motion to Strike (same as Motion to Dismiss in CA) the Plaintiffs Complaint. The Plaintiffs then filed a First Amended Complaint (FAC), which made TJSL's Demurrer and Motion to Strike moot. The school never followed up with a Demurrer or Motion to Strike the FAC. The case is currently in litigation and discovery is ongoing.
ReplyDelete@3:00 pm,
ReplyDeleteSpoken as a true ass-wipe, who could have graduated from NYLS in 1990 - and still done pretty well for himself.
By the way, I only attended my third tier commode because I received a full-tuition scholarship. Unfortunately, SEVERAL of my former classmates incurred $125K in non-dischargeable debt for a law degree - and they have spotty employment records since then, despite their willingness to pound the pavement, take court-appointed dreck, and intitiative.
BRAVO to NYU for responding in detail the the BS allegations espoused by Campos in his March 8 post (not to mention the even more paranoid schizophrenic March 12 post). And BRAVO to NYU for getting NLJ to admit that 71 of the NLJ 250 firms provided no school-specific 2011 hiring data--there goes the bulk of Campos's claims about so-called "missing" jobs in the school-reported numbers. And BRAVO to NYU for calling out Christine Parker's flawed reporting in the NY Post.
ReplyDeletePerhaps it is because legal academics don't know much about actual practice that they failed to realize that fraud is actionable.
ReplyDeleteI'll post a response to NYU's (and Columbia's) response tomorrow.
ReplyDelete5:11:
ReplyDeleteUnsure of the asshole tone your post. The fact is NYU came clean about the missing numbers....something that should have been explained in the first place. When schools living off taxpayer infused student loan money, even those as highly ranked as NYU, have "missing" graduates in their numbers, they should have to explain them without prompting from anyone.
Those who blame the students may want to read this:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.lvrj.com/news/job-market-gloomy-for-many-law-grads-but-sun-shines-here-132843158.html
It illustrates that even a seasoned journalist can be fooled by a law school.
Las Vegas unemployment is at 17%. Many young people are living under the casino storm drains. This law school also sucks away much badly needed state funding for another medical school.
Campos raised a perfectly legitimate query. If NYU's response holds up under scrutiny, then more power to NYU; but that wouldn't mean that it wasn't a reasonable issue to raise in a blog devoted to law school transparency and employment statistics.
ReplyDeleteAgreed LT, I think Campos raised a fair question as well.
ReplyDeleteThere's quite a discrepancy between Campos' source at the NLJ and the individual named in NYU's response regarding the response rate of law firms to the survey though which I hope that is addressed in Lawprof's response tomorrow.
A call ahead of time might have given the answer.
ReplyDeleteI look forward to LawProf's post on NYU/CLS, but want to offer this thought: NYU should be less flamboyant and more thoughtful. I would, for example, citecheck that figure of "71." It's inconsistent with Columbia's report of 24 firms that didn't respond to NLJ in 2011 (http://www.law.columbia.edu/media_inquiries/news_events/2012/march2012/letter-to-editor-of-ny-post), as well as to NYU's reference to "21" firms later in their post. Columbia was referring to 2011, while NYU discussed 2010, but it seems odd that so many more firms responded in 2011 than in 2010.
ReplyDeleteNYU's release may have the correct figure but, as a former managing editor, it's the type of anomaly I would get up from my desk to doublecheck. If it is an error, it's an embarrassing one in a piece that takes such a flamboyant tone.
Second, well I've learned about the spam trap, and that's for the next comment...
I say no one expects or is entitled to a job after graduation. You are all adults, you know what school costs you know the economy. Look at yourselves first before you blame others.
ReplyDeleteShould doctors, vets and engineers sue as well?
I suspect the comments at 12:39 and 1:00 regarding the dismissal of the Thomas Jefferson are misinformed. Abovethelaw is quoting Anziska and Strauss as saying this, but this is not one of their lawsuits, and lawschooltransparency has previously said that TJLS answered the complaint in September. That makes it illogical that a denial of a motion to dismiss would be issued today. This makes it likely that either Anziska and Strauss, or abovethelaw, is spreading misinformation here.
ReplyDeleteSecond, I think NYU should have stayed away from that line about "lies, damned lies, and (law school) statistics." How is NYU itself using numbers to address prospective students? Take a look at NYU's most recent JD admissions brochure, linked from their website here: http://www.law.nyu.edu/admissions/jdadmissions/index.htm (see the link on the righthand side).
ReplyDeleteCheck out the "By the Numbers" page near the end of the brochure. This includes employment information about the class of 2009. First intriguing fact: NYU says that "Each year, more than 130 NYU School of Law graduates work as judicial clerks." That's a pretty bold statement, and it's in tension with what NYU reports on its own employment data page.
There, NYU reports that 10.7% of its *employed* 2009 graduates took judicial clerkships. That's 10.7% of 457 or 49 graduates. Even if we accept NYU's generous estimate, on the same page, that "approximately 20% of each class ultimately clerks" (some after practicing for a year or two), that would still be only 94 members of the class of 2009.
How does NYU get to "more than 130" in its recruiting brochure? I don't know. Maybe they include some grads who hold permanent staff clerkships; they would add to the total each year. Maybe they include their LLM grads--although this is a booklet that otherwise addresses JD figures and there's no note to that effect.
There may be a way in which this "more than 130" figure is literally true, but it seems curious when compared to NYU's own statistics from elsewhere on the site. But there's more...
Painterguy's blog is over, and now has a new blog here:
ReplyDeletehttp://lifestudentloandebt.blogspot.com/
The new blog will focus more on the facts of my debt and the day to day life of being poor and indebted with ruined credit from Student Loan debt.
Thanks,
John Koch (Painterguy)
Good luck and best wishes with the new blog. I'm glad to see you move on to a new venture.
DeleteAlso- as you are near NYU maybe you could help lawprof edit their employment numbers. They offered we should take them up on it!
DeleteDJM, they may be counting clerkships for state courts administrative law judges. While I don't mean to demean these positions, it does not have the prestige factor of a AIII clerkship.
ReplyDeleteUgh, typos galore.
ReplyDeleteI meant to say NYU may be counting clerkships for state courts and admin law judges.
I wouldn't be surprised if these clerkships included small claims court and traffic court.
Final thought for tonight on NYU and numbers: That same page of the recruiting brochure pairs two prominent numbers--a "median salary" of $160,000 and tuition of $46,840. As far as I know, those numbers are absolutely correct--it appears from other figures that at least half of NYU's 2009 graduates earned starting salaries of $160,000.
ReplyDeleteBut that comparison makes a pretty blatant value proposition to potential students. Think about what NYU doesn't say here. There's no description of the bimodal salary distribution; no recognition that public service and government attorneys will earn far less than this median. We may think that's obvious, but why should that be obvious to 0Ls? They think about powerful US attorneys as "government and public service." Surely those people earn a lot if they graduate from a top school, the college senior thinks.
Nor is there any mention of attrition at BigLaw firms and how many people lose those big salaries shortly after graduation. Even the use of a median, without any reference to the range, gives a somewhat misleading impression here. 0Ls don't know that $160,000 is pretty much the ceiling as well as the median. Looking at just the figures in the brochure, they're likely to think, "golly, if that's what the middle person in the class earns, think of what the top quarter must get. Even if I really slack off, it must be possible to earn at least $100,000 easy with one of these JDs."
It may seem silly to note that $160,000 is the ceiling as well as the median--who could really complain about that? But you have to look at these numbers through the eyes of a potential law student, rather than someone who is already very familiar with the system. Citing this median suggests that there are even vaster riches to be earned--right after law school.
NYU's numbers are designed to dazzle, not educate. That's the problem I have with these representations, like those in many other law school brochures. We're educators, and we should be educating potential students--thoughtfully--about all aspects of law practice. Even if these numbers don't lie, they entice and manipulate. That's not what education should be about.
DJM, before you go...
ReplyDeleteThis page may clarify your confusion about NYU's clerkship anomaly:
http://www.law.nyu.edu/careerservices/jdstudents/judicialclerkships/index.htm
It says 46 clerked for CoA. Three clerked for the Delaware Court of Chancery. NYU has a strong Tax LLM program so a few of their grads probably clerk for the US Tax Court as well.
Seems reasonable to me.
@7:21, I'm afraid that doesn't help. Those clerkships are already in the 10.7%. See http://www.law.nyu.edu/careerservices/employmentstatistics/index.htm. For federal court clerkships (which include bankruptcy judges and magistrates, not just art. III judges), NYU reports 84.1% of the 10.7%--or 9.0% of total employed grads. State, local, and other clerks make up the rest of the 10.7%, but still don't get anywhere near 130.
ReplyDeleteIsn't it weird that we should even have to go through these arithmetic gymnastics?
Isn't it weird that we should even have to go through these arithmetic gymnastics?
ReplyDeleteAgreed. :)
I have ONE comment to make: If you audit NYU, make sure you audit their LLM program as well. That is all.
ReplyDeleteumm...$160K isn't the top. There's such a thing as a bonus. Also, one firm (I think Williams & Connelly) starts at $170K.
ReplyDeleteIt is possible to provide faculty housing in new York for less than a multiple- million dollar condo. That use of money for faculty housing is obscene.
ReplyDeleteHopefully Campos will include some of DJM's analysis in his response, since the people at NYU are obviously paying attention. DJM has summarized nicely why NYU deserves no benefit of the doubt whatsoever when it comes to apparent discrepancies and why the burden is on them to explain them.
ReplyDeleteThe 130 clerks statistic may mean that 130 Nyu grads (regardless of year of graduation) work as clerks in any particular year.
ReplyDeleteWCL, as I noted to 7:21, the 10.7% includes *all* clerkships including state, local, and other. So that's 49 graduates from the class of 2009 who started clerkships the year after graduation. For the class of 2010, NYU reports a somewhat larger number: 63 grads (once you calculate the percentage of employed grads) in federal, state, local, or other clerkships. But that's still nowhere near the 130--or 140--graduates a year listed in their brochure and on the page you cite.
ReplyDeleteThe larger numbers require an awful lot of people to take clerkships after a year or two of practice--and not just in one year but every year. If it's true that 75-80 NYU grads leave practice every year to take a judicial clerkship, that's a pretty steep fall-off in the $160,000 salaries!
Could they be counting third-years who complete judicial externships before graduating? Many schools have externs like that, but I don't think we count them as "judicial clerks."
130 is the total # of nyu grads clerking during any particular year, regardless of year of graduation.
ReplyDeleteDear Dean Ricky,
ReplyDeleteNYU doth protest too much, methinks.
- 2004 Grad (with the student loans to prove it)
Not really.
ReplyDelete@ 7:48--Where do you live? A four bedroom apartment? Some people do have children.
ReplyDeleteYeah...and most families in NYC do not live in multi-million dollar condos.
ReplyDeleteMost people do not, as NYU does, invest in huge amounts of real estate and rent it out to people.
ReplyDeleteHave been seeing NYU grads/biglaw washouts in doc review the last couple of years. Its all crumbling like a house cards when you see the so-called elite grads winding up in places where grads from toilets like Crooklyn and Carbozo and NYLS have traditionally dwelled. Its getting so bad that one needs to have had a seat on the Supreme Court to get a half way decent doc review gig. God Bless!
ReplyDeleteIt kind of feels like one needs to have had a seat on the Supreme Court to get an interview for any kind of legal job these days. Supreme Court or law firm partners only.
ReplyDeleteI'm 748
ReplyDeleteI have children. I live in NYC. I have a two bedroom. We use the dining room as a bedroom. Other people- one bedroom, dining rom is their bedroom and the kids share the larger bedroom. People manage very well in NYC without a huge space. This isn't the suburbs.
I'm 748 I live in NYC and I have one son. What is your point exactly?
ReplyDeleteSorry this is wrong. I thought the spam filter blocked my above post.
DeleteBtw I have two kids but my daughter is at college. Not denying the number of children I have. Just trying to explain how we live in NYC though I'm not sure why Im bothering!
DeleteEveryone knows that millions of people live in new York in less expensive places than this one.
70 comments, not one person offers to help LawProf audit NYU's numbers.
ReplyDeleteJust goes to validate the fact that "scammed" law students are actually lazy do-nothing scoundrels, and the reason they can't find a job is that there are no openings for such people.
Hey JDPainterguy, your five minutes of fame ended with that pos piece on News 12. Kindly return to your shit life of quiet desperation.
ReplyDeleteHey 2:41
ReplyDeleteEven seasoned journalists assume law school's are credible:
http://www.lvrj.com/news/job-market-gloomy-for-many-law-grads-but-sun-shines-here-132843158.html
7:48-- The answer cannot be that because you do not live in a 4 bedroom apartment in Manhattan, no one should. I do not either, and I am not indignant that others do. NYU buys lots of property. It makes sense to invest in units that have a chance of appreciating in value or, at a minimum, not losing value. So the faculty members who use this will get to rent, not own, the place. Again, most universities I know of own property of various types. They often own buildings that faculty live in,paying rent. Based on the market, 3 million dollars for a four bedroom apartment, is not over the top. The average price of a 1 bedroom in Manhattan is over a million dollars.
ReplyDeleteHello Friends.........
ReplyDeleteGreat information.Thanks for sharing this useful information with all of us.Keep sharing more in the future.
Have a nice time ahead.
Thanks
This really is having an effect. I graduated in 03' - any chance I will recover monies? There were no jobs in 03' either. It has been awful in law for a looooon time.
ReplyDeletePS - Yes,.......turtles all the way down !!!!
NYU buys lots of property.
ReplyDeleteIs NYU an institution of higher learning, or a property portfolio funded by federal student loan dollars?
@ 2:41AM
ReplyDeleteI suppose you think the ABA Journal article about me, done by a Senior Journalist for the ABA Journal, was a Piece of Shit too?
It is here:
http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/law_grads_ballooning_student_debt_will_exceed_1.5m_by_the_time_he_retires/
How can you be such a creep to condemn a bankrupt man?
Ant the Journalist that did the story for News 12 Long Island is a lawyer as well, licensed in NY and NJ.
ReplyDeleteThe only piece of shit around here is you @2:41AM
And I am so fucking broke all the time, and you really suck.
What university owns no property? There may be some.
ReplyDelete4:55, I don't think anyone is saying that no one should live in a 3 million dollar apartment (although, I might make that argument, actually...). But why do law professors, aka "public servants," as they like to imagine themselves, have to live in 3 million dollar apartments? How much do NYU professors make? I bet it's a lot more than what I make (I live in Brooklyn), AND I had to find and rent my own apartment. But then, I am an actual public servant (government employee). If I were an NYU student I'd be a little disgruntled that my Corporations prof was grading my exam whilst gazing upon Washington Square park from the view provided by his school-funded "investment property." Why don't they just take the student loan money, put it in a big pile, and set it on fire? That would at least provide some entertainment for the students.
ReplyDeleteMy professors lived in nice houses bought, I suppose, with their salaries and loans from the university. I did not, and do not, care. I did my bit in law school, and they did theirs. You feel differently. That is your right. There are thousands of law professors, and you have created a caricature and imposed it on all of them, saying how people you do not even know view themselves.
ReplyDeleteAgain, most universities I know of have faculty housing. They buy units or build buildings. They have apartments for singles, married people, people with kids. Okay, so all faculty housing should be one or two bedrooms?
re Lois Turner said... (March 14, 2012 5:45 PM):
ReplyDeleteIs this blog really "dedicated to law school transparency and employment statistics"? Since Paul Campos's subpar scholarly output is clearly not winning him distinction (http://http://lawweb.colorado.edu/profiles/profile.jsp?id=10), I surmised that the purpose of this blog is to provide a platform for him to spread his vitriol and half-assed conspiracy theories about how students are being ripped off by law schools--you know, law schools like the one that's been his employer for more than two decades.
Or Law Professors can live where every other working person lives: in an outer borough. Or, gasp, New Jersey.
ReplyDeleteYou know who lives in 3.3 million dollar apartments? Born rich assholes, people that have owned property in NYC since the Warriors, bankers, partners, heath ledger, and law professors?
One of these kids is doing his own thing, one of these kids does not belong.
I think you are missing the point.NYU is buying real estate that they think will be a good deal. The professor will be paying rent to live there. After the faculty member is long dead, NYU will still have it...unless they think it in their interest to sell it. Why not build dorms in New Jersey? That would be cheaper, too. Why not move the whole school there? And I have nothing against New Jersey. It really is the Garden State, and gets an unfair rap.
ReplyDeleteThe offensive part comes in when the money NYU uses to buy this lavish "faculty housing" comes from students mortgaging their futures with lifetime debt in order to pay for their educations. If NYU were priced reasonably, offered financial aid, etc., and still had millions of dollars to put up their profs "in style," the outrage would not be there. As an anecdote, NYU was the one school I was admitted to, out of several in the T14, that offered me a package of loans ONLY. All of the others coughed up at least a partial tuition need scholarship. And I know I'm not the only one!
ReplyDeleteI had a friend who had a full right at NYU. Another who was offered one, but turned it down to go to Yale. Someone is getting scholarships there.
ReplyDeleteI'm guessing those were merit scholarships. I was referring to need scholarships (I lacked the merit to get one of the other kind.)
ReplyDeleteI see. So, you went to another school, right?
ReplyDeleteI did. And if I had taken the full amount of loans and gone to NYU, I would have been pissed that the school was using that money to buy investment properties. That was my point.
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