tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post8033576415826221819..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: Everybody's in show bizLawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger101125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-10696378865780448402012-01-28T16:43:09.392-08:002012-01-28T16:43:09.392-08:00What do you enter if you're an unpaid licensed...What do you enter if you're an unpaid licensed attorney (similar to what the US DOJ is hiring these days), or if you make $10/hour? Any slots for those options, or are you only allowed to write something in if you make a "salary?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-14328560212427356282012-01-28T12:36:15.846-08:002012-01-28T12:36:15.846-08:0012:14 - not sure what survey your school is sendin...12:14 - not sure what survey your school is sending out, but the NALP survey, which is what our school sends out, asks for salary if you are employed regardless of whether it is in an attorney position or not. http://www.nalp.org/uploads/ERSS/2011GraduateSurveyANDFAQs_Oct11.pdfAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-89335758083945374652012-01-28T07:40:22.455-08:002012-01-28T07:40:22.455-08:00Yes, you should drop out. If you can't get mo...Yes, you should drop out. If you can't get money back from this semester - then spend all your time looking for jobs. I wouldn't even bother with going to school at all. There is no point in continuing. I don't agree with the advice to keep borrowing - it makes no sense to have to pay back more. <br /><br />Tell prospective employers you realized that you don't want to practice law, so there is no point in continuing to get a JD.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-1894518461277330092012-01-28T07:23:46.467-08:002012-01-28T07:23:46.467-08:00I wish that this story could be posted in the U.S....I wish that this story could be posted in the U.S. News and World Report's 2012 Graduate School edition.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02282378622563612578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-77217921737367479872012-01-28T07:02:47.299-08:002012-01-28T07:02:47.299-08:0010:27,
It's your third year so may as well s...10:27, <br /><br />It's your third year so may as well stick with it and get the JD. <br /><br />You probably don't give a shit anymore about your grades so I think you should just go to classes only two days per week and work the other three. Get any job and to the best of your ability, use the money to pay off student loans or save up for a bar review course.<br /><br />If you can't get a job, join as many bar associations as a student. You should be able to join for free. Use that opportunity to work with groups and "network" (whatever that's worth).WCLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-63470550291360156182012-01-28T06:50:48.374-08:002012-01-28T06:50:48.374-08:0010:27,
Keep in mind that your perspective may be ...10:27,<br /><br />Keep in mind that your perspective may be warped by the depression you are likely feeling right now. As has been said on this blog many times, law school is a mental illness factory. That's what law school creates - mental illness, mainly depression.<br /><br />4% of 0Ls are depressed, but 40% of 3Ls are depressed. I think I read that the depression rate in 2L was like 20-something %. <br /><br />In other words, what's happening to you is that the factory's machine tools are working their trade on your mind. You're pessimistic, hopeless, worried about your next 10 years, worried about your parents . . . your mind has gone from one of natural positivity and mental health to one where you see nothing but gray (by the way, this is the "critical thinking" gift that law school gave you, i.e. you are now able to see only the negative in everything. congratulations.) <br /><br />Of course a mentally ill mind is not one suited for decision making, so please be careful whatever you do. Since you've already sunk so much into it, it seems to me that you might as well finish and get that "J.D." credential by your name even though you won't work in law.<br /><br />But whatever you do, just make sure that's it's your own rational choice, and not a manifestation of the "gift" that law school gave you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-16624484238891117702012-01-28T05:42:17.473-08:002012-01-28T05:42:17.473-08:0010:27: What, roughly speaking, is your law school ...10:27: What, roughly speaking, is your law school ranked and what area of the country are you in?LawProfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-49144444548945218662012-01-28T00:02:17.664-08:002012-01-28T00:02:17.664-08:00Dropping out in 3L is a tough one. I would absolut...Dropping out in 3L is a tough one. I would absolutely max out on my loans and spend as little as possible, so you'll have some savings when you graduate unemployed and go on IBR (IBR looks only at your income, not your savings).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-61052399584452403702012-01-27T23:07:27.325-08:002012-01-27T23:07:27.325-08:0010:27 -
That's a tough decision. You are ri...10:27 - <br /><br />That's a tough decision. You are right - most people not in the legal field just don't get how tough it is - they just don't understand.<br /><br />That's why you have to make the decision yourself, based on your own knowledge and what's best for you. Write out a list of all the pros and cons of if you stay and if you leave. Of course, the cons if you leave will be that your family will be disappointed in you. Maybe show them some literature from sites like these and others that explains how much you will be in debt and the little chance you will have of paying it off. <br /><br />Ultimately, you may never convince them but understand that it is because they aren't as familiar with the field as you are. So you will have to count more on your judgment than theirs. Some of the cons of staying you have already remarked upon: high debt load, high probability of being unable to find a job, etc.<br /><br />As for being not in the top 50% of your class, I realize some may disagree w/ me, but watching how my fellow grads have fared, I have honestly found it is less about grades and school then it is about luck and the market. I have seen excellent students fare poorly and average ones do quite well. Their success (or lack of it) usually depended more upon where they were looking for work than their performance in law school. This tells me it's less about grades and more about the market. The guy in New York, despite his good grades, had a lot harder go at it than the fellow in New Mexico, who found a job immediately.<br /><br />Lastly, don't let the fact that you haven't done any competitions or journals as of now influence the fact. I didn't start getting involved in competitions until I was right where you are, and I ended up doing quite a few in my time by the time I graduated and being quite successful at them. (Of course, none of that mattered in the real world anyway - all they wanted was 3-5 years of experience and by experience, they weren't referring to competitions.) Nevertheless, if you do decide to stick it out, I would start getting involved in competitions now - if nothing else, they build confidence.<br /><br />I wish you the best of luck in deciding.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-28890436732065426742012-01-27T22:50:11.681-08:002012-01-27T22:50:11.681-08:00Dude, your more than half way through (2/3rds tuit...Dude, your more than half way through (2/3rds tuition-wise), just stick it out, and hope for the best (and start learning how to set up a solo shop now=)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-59439405267802488412012-01-27T22:27:54.670-08:002012-01-27T22:27:54.670-08:00I'm in my second semester second year and need...I'm in my second semester second year and need advice on what to do. I've realized that by the time I graduate, I'll be in the hole close to 130K. I've really come to the conclusion that as a 25 year old, my life is going to be thoroughly fu@ked for at least a decade as I try to pay off the loans. <br /><br />I'm from an Asian family and my parents want me to continue. But I've realized that whether I get the JD or not, I'll still be working in a non-legal low paying career. I'm most definitely not in the top 50%, haven't done any competitions or journals etc. <br /><br />Should I drop? I would really appreciate any answers. I've been reading this blog for months and have begun to understand that non-law students and even many law students don't get the fact that getting a legal career is not easy.... Please advise as I can't seem to convince anyone else of the truth...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-48938823617376715082012-01-27T20:58:14.587-08:002012-01-27T20:58:14.587-08:00A follow up on my comments of 3:25 to put the dama...A follow up on my comments of 3:25 to put the damage to the country done by our law schools in perspective. Say a million students graduate from college this year. The 25,000 unemployed and unemployable law graduates who are largely lost to the economy, represent 2.5% of all college graduates. Or since almost all of the 25,000 came out of the top half of their undergrad class, the loss then equals 5% of our better college graduates. Or say 5,000 of the law grads came out of the top 10% of their college class. Then 5% of our finest graduates are striped out of the economy. You can work these numbers various ways, but the loss to the country is substancial. William OckhamAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-72851975337701566122012-01-27T19:20:21.381-08:002012-01-27T19:20:21.381-08:00That's because some law students pay attention...That's because some law students pay attention to it, and make decisions based on it. If med students paid attention, med schools would too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-61946090167168382222012-01-27T19:09:10.586-08:002012-01-27T19:09:10.586-08:00One of the many absurdities, outright ridiculous a...One of the many absurdities, outright ridiculous absurdities, of law school is that a second tier failing news magazine was allowed to appoint themselves as the regulators of legal academia.<br /><br />It just goes to show you how dumb legal academics are. <br /><br />Med schools couldn't give a shit what USNWR writes, but law schools changed their entire model. USNWR says jump, they say how high.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-58855868421191505712012-01-27T18:01:48.461-08:002012-01-27T18:01:48.461-08:00Yes, you are.Yes, you are.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-4763625253266660642012-01-27T17:48:01.315-08:002012-01-27T17:48:01.315-08:00Don't mean to digress but I was wondering whet...Don't mean to digress but I was wondering whether it would be possible to petition the people at USNWR to disregard employment statistics for ranking purposes. Obviously schools fudge the numbers to varying degrees. Not only that, it appears that in most cases, the first job is a temporary one. <br /><br />I think the employment statistics should be removed and tuition should replace it. The lower the tuition, the higher the rank. At least if the law schools game tuition, it will most likely benefit the student. <br /><br />Or am I being racist and elitist?WCLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-26115285723927014022012-01-27T17:38:10.008-08:002012-01-27T17:38:10.008-08:00I know what they have proposed. The final vote is ...I know what they have proposed. The final vote is in March. It is not March yet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-63306724202018425962012-01-27T17:22:08.722-08:002012-01-27T17:22:08.722-08:00They already came up with something, it was not on...They already came up with something, it was not only insufficient but they had the gall to amend it to make it even more misleading. Try to read up on history before commenting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-73077383077011498742012-01-27T17:20:24.362-08:002012-01-27T17:20:24.362-08:00Well, we can wait to see whether what they come up...Well, we can wait to see whether what they come up with is sufficient. It cannot be judged insufficient because it is not what LST wants.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-26402116032848342322012-01-27T17:09:00.875-08:002012-01-27T17:09:00.875-08:00That's troubling, since the committee making t...That's troubling, since the committee making that vote is made up mostly of profs. and deans from TTTs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-14510789744492763592012-01-27T16:49:11.067-08:002012-01-27T16:49:11.067-08:00Isn't the ABA voting on disclosure?Schools wil...Isn't the ABA voting on disclosure?Schools will likely follow what they require.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-85634138355312029702012-01-27T16:16:41.166-08:002012-01-27T16:16:41.166-08:00How much is Mr. Acosta being paid to send out esse...How much is Mr. Acosta being paid to send out essentially empty emails? I've never seen such poor customer service. Maybe UM should put their employees through whatever training Amazon gives their customer service folks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-88687503542639326472012-01-27T16:00:39.718-08:002012-01-27T16:00:39.718-08:00Exactly. It's just about making an informed ch...Exactly. It's just about making an informed choice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-72446899442607973912012-01-27T15:54:39.139-08:002012-01-27T15:54:39.139-08:00I think the argument is that as more information i...I think the argument is that as more information is available, and more people know what to ask, prospective students will have the ability to make different choices. These issues have been aired all over the Net, and in the MSM. Schools are providing better data. Prospective students will be in a better position to decide whether they should go to law school.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-61252256911055912542012-01-27T15:25:55.962-08:002012-01-27T15:25:55.962-08:00The argument goes on as to whether the student who...The argument goes on as to whether the student who will do no research deserves saving. A position on this is that whatever way you come down on this, fraud is fraud and fraud is reprehensible. Another view is that whatever duty is owed by the law schools to the 0L's , you still save the student for the sake of the profession. All true, but these arguments don't address the effect of the production of a large number of unemployed and unemployable law graduates on the country. They are just lost. Their minimum 150 LSAT doesn't register much with the rest of us. But that's intelligent. 115 IQ or better. Above average college graduates with work habits diligent enough to get through law school and the bar. These people should be at the core of our productive economy. Weighed down with $100,000 of debt, several years of fruitless and unemployed search for legal employment and depression, they never will be. And that's 25,000 this year, another 25,000 next year and 25,000 a year forever. William OckhamAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com