tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post5220137025426934795..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: Sen. Boxer has some questions for the ABALawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-64021812351450721442011-10-08T18:17:20.595-07:002011-10-08T18:17:20.595-07:00BL1Y OWS is at your old stomping grounds.
http://w...BL1Y OWS is at your old stomping grounds.<br />http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/08/occupy-wall-street-washington-square_n_1001775.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-37401888398329317122011-10-08T15:39:36.827-07:002011-10-08T15:39:36.827-07:00I guarantee you that if you camped out in front of...I guarantee you that if you camped out in front of your old law school, in a tent, with a drum and a megaphone and reminded them every day of the horror of your life - they would refund you money in an instant. Or you could confront them in one of millions of other ways. You have a body and free will, that you could use to cause so much pain for your former law school who you admit victimized you. But you won't, "madstudent" because you're a coward who is afraid to act in the real world. So you post bullshit on the net all day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-41879620595133240962011-10-07T08:27:16.748-07:002011-10-07T08:27:16.748-07:008:03: I think what Avor is hinting at is that curr...8:03: I think what Avor is hinting at is that current and past graduates will get no remedy even if schools provide real employment data. While, it is likely to deter future students, today's student remains truly fucked with no easy remedy available. Transparency is the first and the easiest step, something that could be done by February of 2012. <br /><br />I do not see how current and past students can be made whole. It is clear that schools unlikely to give people refunds and it unlikely court will make schools do so. The only answer I see is to allow students to discharge student debt via bankruptcy, however, this is a bad remedy because those students will have bad credit, will not be able to get certain jobs, will not be eligible for more loans to go get another degree. In the best case scenario, current and past students will have a tough life ahead of them even if debt goes away.madstudentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-39180072021814230312011-10-07T08:03:54.659-07:002011-10-07T08:03:54.659-07:00"The statistics the schools report are just a..."The statistics the schools report are just a red herring. Improve them and it does nothing to solve the problem people are crying about."<br /><br />I disagree. If Brooklyn published "33% of our grads are employed in full time non-temporary jobs as attorneys," enrollment would plummet. Law school applicants are extremely risk averse as a group.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-19877589965709008542011-10-07T03:09:07.555-07:002011-10-07T03:09:07.555-07:00I can't help but think that this overall fixat...I can't help but think that this overall fixation with the employment statistics (although it should be corrected) is a lot like the futility of "The War on Drugs."<br /><br />Yes, whoever is ultimately (if ever) held responsible for putting out fudged stats should be punished. But who is going to be? The equivalent of a street level dealer (some clerk in the admissions office)? The person responsible for the hood (maybe the dean...)? The ABA (some cartel person...)?<br /><br />No matter which one it would turn out to be, it won't amount to much more than taking down the equivalent person in the drug trade since there is basically an inelastic demand for the available seats.<br /><br />I guess it is better than doing nothing, because at least it's getting some attention, but whether 10,000 kids apply for the 250 seats at a school or 500 kids apply for the 250 seats, the same number of people are getting hosed each year.<br /><br />You can't force a school to lower its prices. This is probably true even if you wiped out student loans altogether. Having to pay in cash for a law degree would make it seem even more prestigious compared with all of the losers who now can't afford it, and I'll bet they'd still fill their classrooms.<br /><br />But the real issue here is the people graduating with no job and much debt, so the real issue is the loans. I know that's old news...but addressing that is the only solution to the problem. <br /><br />The statistics the schools report are just a red herring. Improve them and it does nothing to solve the problem people are crying about.<br /><br />AvorAvornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-66120326811098463012011-10-07T01:01:48.226-07:002011-10-07T01:01:48.226-07:00Good for Senator Boxer - the financial issues are ...Good for Senator Boxer - the financial issues are real. But I hope she is not saying that taking smart young students and convincing them they are stupid is a bad thing. This is essential. Or it's a collossal problem, dwarfing the paper money problem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-64234113677569182882011-10-06T20:44:26.470-07:002011-10-06T20:44:26.470-07:004:32: That would not stop law schools from providi...4:32: That would not stop law schools from providing anecdotal examples of successful graduates such as the same 5 law review kids who got big firm jobs or the rich kid who went to law school on a lark and then inherited his Dad's company. It would not combat the huge societal bias favoring higher education in general and seeing law school as a ticket to the upper-middle class or providing a "versatile" degree. Finally, students would simply not do the work required to figure out law school is a scam.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-9344530244821952572011-10-06T20:06:57.312-07:002011-10-06T20:06:57.312-07:00Check out: http://tinyurl.com/3u5otn5Check out: http://tinyurl.com/3u5otn5Law Office Computinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16741029082116341276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-57511631535776956162011-10-06T19:57:40.369-07:002011-10-06T19:57:40.369-07:00Well, it is clear that there is a discrimination a...Well, it is clear that there is a discrimination against some defined class of students, i.e. students with private (commercial loans). What is the constitutionally permissible justification for that discrimination? Why is Sallie Student more likely to default than say a bank or a business or a farmer? Congress is not allowed to just make up justifications for invidious discrimination. There are bills in Congress seeking to lift the discharge ban for private loans but for the life of me I cannot see the valid factual basis for the discrimination. Maybe there were some findings when the bankruptcy Act was amended or something, but I think somebody ought to do some more work on this.Law Office Computinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16741029082116341276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-14257189238805858002011-10-06T19:24:49.612-07:002011-10-06T19:24:49.612-07:00loc: gives students an incentive succeed, otherwis...loc: gives students an incentive succeed, otherwise every idiot would go to school and if does not work out just file bankruptcy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-36360610316668778962011-10-06T19:23:52.396-07:002011-10-06T19:23:52.396-07:00LOC, the rationale for making student debt non-dis...LOC, the rationale for making student debt non-dischargeable was some urban-legend style nonsense about doctors declaring bankruptcy during residency, getting rid of their educational debt, and then raking in big bucks shortly afterwards. Of course bankruptcy judges have plenty of discretion to refuse to discharge debt under those sorts of circumstances, but for understandable reasons the lending lobby loved the idea of non-dischargeable debt backed by government guarantees. The 2010 "reform" of this system was to stop making new educational debts private but to keep them non-dischargeable.LawProfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-12518920397510079732011-10-06T19:04:32.994-07:002011-10-06T19:04:32.994-07:00Let me ask a simple question: What is the justific...Let me ask a simple question: What is the justification for denying bankruptcy protection to students?Law Office Computinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16741029082116341276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-30314434362405713592011-10-06T18:32:14.987-07:002011-10-06T18:32:14.987-07:00eliminating false market for loans = lower tuition...eliminating false market for loans = lower tuition<br /><br />holding non-profit schools to being truly non-profit = lower tuition<br /><br />realizing that it is healthy for society not to have its educated youth burdened with debt = lower tuitionAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-88000302450107045372011-10-06T17:10:48.750-07:002011-10-06T17:10:48.750-07:00Regulate the way the gov't hands out student l...Regulate the way the gov't hands out student loans. Low job prospects = less loan amount.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01659995537790248686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-72085566174952136492011-10-06T17:10:43.303-07:002011-10-06T17:10:43.303-07:00The ABA is a worthless organization.The ABA is a worthless organization.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-18495115704534414352011-10-06T17:09:49.874-07:002011-10-06T17:09:49.874-07:00The ABA is a worthless organization.The ABA is a worthless organization.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-82820979111502662362011-10-06T16:32:30.350-07:002011-10-06T16:32:30.350-07:00As long as there are substantial rewards for disho...As long as there are substantial rewards for dishonesty, law schools will be as dishonest as they can. That is why I have said time and time again that law schools should simply be BANNED from providing any employment statistics or data whatsoever. And instead anyone who takes out a govt guaranteed loan should have to sign a disclaimer indicating the risks of attending vs the likely payoff.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-19949041280202672592011-10-06T14:54:33.832-07:002011-10-06T14:54:33.832-07:00And this is getting toward exactly what's real...And this is getting toward exactly what's really needed in order to fix this:<br /><br />government regulation.<br /><br />No, really. As long as being honest is voluntary and there are substantial rewards for dishonesty, nobody's going to sink their own business (er, sorry, I mean *school*) when they can use the fig leaves of "everybody else is doing it" and "if I don't, someone else will." You have to enforce non-cheating everywhere, or there's no way to get a voluntary movement started.Tierceletnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-4218780019347260362011-10-06T14:49:35.600-07:002011-10-06T14:49:35.600-07:002:39 the article requires subscription2:39 the article requires subscriptionAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-30529004231226886922011-10-06T14:39:51.527-07:002011-10-06T14:39:51.527-07:00FYI http://www.americanbanker.com/issues/176_195/p...FYI http://www.americanbanker.com/issues/176_195/private-student-lending-sallie-mae-1042928-1.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-31453937748693180102011-10-06T14:33:49.979-07:002011-10-06T14:33:49.979-07:00I don't think so 2:17. Even at half tuition it...I don't think so 2:17. Even at half tuition it would still be a ripoff.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-35775883022893518612011-10-06T14:17:58.421-07:002011-10-06T14:17:58.421-07:00I think that if law school tuition were say half o...I think that if law school tuition were say half of what it is today, most of the scam blog movement would disappear. The root of a disgruntled population is ecconomics (see e.g. Singapore where citizens live in a one-party oligarchy, but enjoy a high standard of living ecconomically.)GGU Gradnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-34323864586509956012011-10-06T12:58:48.659-07:002011-10-06T12:58:48.659-07:00" . . . counting unemployed graduates as empl..." . . . counting unemployed graduates as employed so long as they had declined a legal offer."<br /><br />At least until the past year, some schools did this routinely, in flagrant violation of the NALP data reporting guidelines. Except you need to erase the word "legal" from that sentence to more accurately describe this practice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-59421541583725378212011-10-06T12:40:56.114-07:002011-10-06T12:40:56.114-07:00These things are important but not much will chang...These things are important but not much will change until student loans are regulated so that the cost of tuition no longer leads to a lifetime of indentured servitude. I would rather see Senator Boxer concentrate on that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-50679614835974686512011-10-06T12:38:42.896-07:002011-10-06T12:38:42.896-07:00FOARP: seems like you got it right. I didn't t...FOARP: seems like you got it right. I didn't think through what that rule would actually do. Schools could just offer min wage legal jobs which a lot of students would reject because col is more then what you will make. A lot of students will decline and will opt to move back in with the parents but school can still count them as employed. <br /><br />Everything they do is just to cover up how bad things are, they have even started considering how to fix this issues. We are still years away before schools will start providing accurate data.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com