tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post5081695081310866012..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: Calculating the return on an investment requires taking into account the cost of making the investmentLawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-60467340984399675682013-02-22T10:13:48.500-08:002013-02-22T10:13:48.500-08:00Compare to other vaporizers, the herbal vaporizers...Compare to other vaporizers, the herbal vaporizers are the best for <br />these aromatherapy treatments. 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I know dozens of nurses who bought JD degrees who are back to nursing, accountants who bought a JD who are back to accounting, medical doctors who bought a law degree who are unemployed or early deceased and JD holders who subsequently became teachers, and I know several former partners in big law firms, even those who once offered me a job, who are no longer working as lawyers. From my near 20 years of experience, I can assure you that very few if any of those referenced chose to abandon law or their particular lawyer jobs completely voluntarily. Very little seems to be written about these unpleasant and largely unspoken truths.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-86141921143021597552011-10-19T05:49:51.835-07:002011-10-19T05:49:51.835-07:00Education system is becoming increasingly costlier...Education system is becoming increasingly costlier.Technology Consultanthttp://www.davidwiderhorn.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-13028506259345137252011-10-18T17:30:00.587-07:002011-10-18T17:30:00.587-07:00"(all Tier 4 and in the south) as well as CA&..."(all Tier 4 and in the south) as well as CA's state-accredited schools."<br /><br />Exactly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-30266876742179899342011-10-18T17:15:58.970-07:002011-10-18T17:15:58.970-07:00Yes, but I'm willing to bet that a good number...Yes, but I'm willing to bet that a good number of law students, and people who populate this blog paid $$ to go to pricy liberal arts colleges etc., and BTW there are still a few cheap state law school's out there (all Tier 4 and in the south) as well as CA's state-accredited schools.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-31861505641671522042011-10-18T16:48:23.577-07:002011-10-18T16:48:23.577-07:00UG can be distinguished b/c you can always do a co...UG can be distinguished b/c you can always do a community college -> cheap state school.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-63179722158064496682011-10-18T12:47:36.580-07:002011-10-18T12:47:36.580-07:0011:52, at last, someone has caught on. Undergradu...11:52, at last, someone has caught on. Undergraduate education is just as big a scam as law school, and has been for decades, ever since the value of a B.A. or B.S. dropped to what the value of a high school diploma was in the wake of WW2. The whole system's to blame!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-59179205844639704822011-10-18T11:52:56.527-07:002011-10-18T11:52:56.527-07:00I would be curious to know if those of you who wen...I would be curious to know if those of you who went to private undergrad colleges (here in CA almost everyone goes to public schools, other than people who get into Stanford or USC) was the $25,000-$35,000 a year in tuition just as much of a scam as law school (on a smaller scale? I graduated from a state school where tuition for the entire four years was $21,000. Unless you went to Stanford what exactly is your $140,000 undergrad degree (over four years) buying?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-22519839049405867472011-10-18T11:02:36.671-07:002011-10-18T11:02:36.671-07:00@6:33 AM, And there is nothing in those upfront ad...@6:33 AM, And there is nothing in those upfront admissions documents which precludes getting that same information on the back-end. This dereliction of duty is nothing more than willful ignorance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-74900387319397087582011-10-18T06:33:37.586-07:002011-10-18T06:33:37.586-07:00The student has to give permission for schools to ...The student has to give permission for schools to obtain the information you are describing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-90511804654025004632011-10-18T06:25:42.518-07:002011-10-18T06:25:42.518-07:00@5:32 AM, YES, it could be THAT easy. It is THAT...@5:32 AM, YES, it could be THAT easy. It is THAT easy to get all the LSAT, personal statement, credit, and background information on each and every single one of those applicants before they enter law school....so why is it so hard or complicated to simply get that information on the back end????Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-3024290941602885832011-10-18T05:32:15.874-07:002011-10-18T05:32:15.874-07:00DJM, I agree, but it's so easy to simply scan ...DJM, I agree, but it's so easy to simply scan the survey results (blacking out the student's name if necessary) and publish all 400 of them in one giant PDF document that I don't see why schools can't do just that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-39671829546666340562011-10-17T22:41:02.849-07:002011-10-17T22:41:02.849-07:0010:23, I agree completely. I'm an upbeat, enc...10:23, I agree completely. I'm an upbeat, encouraging sort--as you may have figured out--and Hastings is the only school I've found so far that has published its full NALP report. That's a start, at least, in trying to break through the denial I see on law faculties and in offering some of the real story to prospective students. I wanted to praise them for that, and I wondered if any other school has gone even this far.<br /><br />I used to do some empirical scholarship and I am appalled at what many schools are doing with these numbers. The point of universities is to increase understanding, not to trap prospective students with badly distorted statistics. ArgghDeborah Jones Merritthttp://moritzlaw.osu.edu/faculty/bios.php?ID=38noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-37162724669959627902011-10-17T22:23:19.067-07:002011-10-17T22:23:19.067-07:00For example, Hastings states that 252 graduates ha...For example, Hastings states that 252 graduates had full time jobs and they made an average of $107184, a minimum of $36000, a median of $100000 and a maximum of $165000 based on the salaries of 150 members of this group.<br /><br />They should have reported this as "150 graduates with full time jobs and the salaries above" and "102 graduates with full time jobs but unknown salaries." There is no reason to think the latter group made the same as the former. They probably made much less, if they had full time jobs at all, but Hastings wants you to believe that the two groups have the same salary profile.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-17426829126888956532011-10-17T22:21:10.040-07:002011-10-17T22:21:10.040-07:00after reading the GM 2010 career stats, all i coul...after reading the GM 2010 career stats, all i could do is chuckleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-40928903782225309242011-10-17T22:09:06.335-07:002011-10-17T22:09:06.335-07:00DJM, Hastings is still describing a population usi...DJM, Hastings is still describing a population using salary data from a biased sample so I don't give them any accolades.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-89307843739158508442011-10-17T21:48:57.492-07:002011-10-17T21:48:57.492-07:00@9:26
Although I can guess the major theme it won&...@9:26<br />Although I can guess the major theme it won't let me read the full article without a subscription.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-18404555949048904752011-10-17T21:26:40.744-07:002011-10-17T21:26:40.744-07:00The Chronicle of Higher Education had a story abou...The Chronicle of Higher Education had a story about law schools today.<br /><br />http://chronicle.com/article/Crisis-of-Confidence-in-Law/129425/?sid=wb&utm_source=wb&utm_medium=enAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-15125100191490747612011-10-17T21:17:05.504-07:002011-10-17T21:17:05.504-07:00In contrast, here is the link to George Mason'...In contrast, here is the link to George Mason's 2010 career numbers as advertised on their website: http://www.law.gmu.edu/assets/files/career/employment_stats_class_of_2010_updated_march_2011.pdf<br /><br />If GMU has a significant number of grads employed part-time (which is certainly what NALP overall figures suggest), this is even more misleading than many other websites I've seen. There's no indication of how many grads fall into the different private practice categories (which some schools, at least, provide); and, of course, no breakdown of full-time versus part-time work. Notice also that the footnote about salary reporting lumps the caveat about percent reporting with a caveat in the opposite direction about bonuses. It almost sounds as if the "upreportable" information was about people earning bonuses on top of these salaries. "Wow," an outsider might think, "even more money than what they report here!"<br /><br />I'm preaching to the choir, but when I look at the format of GMU's handout, the "99% employment rate" at the top strongly colors how a reader would interpret the information that follows. Starting with that banner, I would think "gee, these graduates do so well in the job market that they must all have their choice of the following jobs. As long as I go to this school, I can choose between a public interest job paying $77,000 (or more, since median means that half of even their public interest attorneys make more than that!) and one of the big firm jobs at $160,000 or more. What a great range of well paid choices I'll have!"<br /><br />Imagine if this sheet began with the heading: "65% employed full-time nine months after graduation." In addition to disclosing the actual bottom line (if that's true in this school's case), that would also have a very different effect on how readers interpret the rest of the information. <br /><br />Of course, I'm taking the liberty here of assuming that George Mason's underlying numbers are similar to those of other schools (e.g., Hastings, which has virtually the same US News ranking). If the vast majority of their 2010 grads are employed full-time at salaries comparable to the reported ones, congratulations to them and their grads! But if the real numbers are at all like those of other schools, this site strikes me as particularly deceptive.Deborah Jones Merritthttp://moritzlaw.osu.edu/faculty/bios.php?ID=38noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-33064149425811041962011-10-17T20:50:54.254-07:002011-10-17T20:50:54.254-07:00Interesting note, given the references to Cal scho...Interesting note, given the references to Cal schools: I'm not sure if others have noted this already, but Hastings has published their full NALP figures online. http://www.uchastings.edu/prospective-students/careers/index.html. The numbers look pretty grim to me: 252 of 421 grads employed full-time; 220 of the 252 in jobs requiring a JD. 60% of those employed full-time reported their salary. Essentially, the numbers support--from a single school's perspective--the overall NALP report.<br /><br />I admire Hastings for reporting this!Deborah Jones Merritthttp://moritzlaw.osu.edu/faculty/bios.php?ID=38noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-65225581122333735972011-10-17T20:18:02.146-07:002011-10-17T20:18:02.146-07:00I wrote Boxer, Coburn and Grassley today. One long...I wrote Boxer, Coburn and Grassley today. One long email to each describing the miserable hell of my life post law schoolAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-54958132046877946262011-10-17T20:02:09.162-07:002011-10-17T20:02:09.162-07:00So Somin and Taylor are adamant that the legal fie...So Somin and Taylor are adamant that the legal field is a bed of roses, full of opportunity and that jobs are out there for the taking! <br /><br />I guess the numerous recent law graduates who responded to the ABA's recent survey documenting their inability to find a job and/or make a salary above $40,000, which would allow them to make a payment on their student loans must all be out of touch with reality. (See the link below.) Couldn't be the professors who are out of touch with reality now, could it?<br /><br />http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/law_school_grads_take_this_six-question_survey_on_finding_that_first_jobAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-33512857768184088472011-10-17T19:39:18.721-07:002011-10-17T19:39:18.721-07:00*rages**rages*Steroid Guyhttp://www.steroidmag.com/noreply@blogger.com