tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post4549624027824895377..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: LLM programsLawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger114125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-87397952416156798522012-10-30T05:17:55.537-07:002012-10-30T05:17:55.537-07:00Specifically, I am interested in LLM programs for ...Specifically, I am interested in LLM programs for additional legal studies in the area of Real Estate with a focus in resort and recreational development. PHD programs in this area would also be of interest.<br /><a href="http://www.harrycpa.com/" rel="nofollow">New York accountants</a>John Milarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15580360837266837293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-52923653780981200782012-10-19T11:35:30.254-07:002012-10-19T11:35:30.254-07:00I meant $5K in addition to JD tuition. I meant $5K in addition to JD tuition. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-74950751304879407472012-10-19T09:38:51.917-07:002012-10-19T09:38:51.917-07:00A fellow graduate of mine has failed the bar at le...A fellow graduate of mine has failed the bar at least once, maybe twice in different states, and gone on to secure an LLM at a higher-ranked school than the one we attended. So, this does seem to occur. However, I don't know if this was the exception or the norm.Crux of lawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06572986619859564280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-69081898513545718702012-10-19T09:36:37.964-07:002012-10-19T09:36:37.964-07:00I went to school with two people that claimed they...I went to school with two people that claimed they were going into "entertainment law."<br /><br />I have no idea what it means.<br />Crux of lawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06572986619859564280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-52075720699436156892012-10-19T09:32:58.499-07:002012-10-19T09:32:58.499-07:00My law school started an IP LLM program about 10 y...My law school started an IP LLM program about 10 years ago, and from what I understand, it has never enrolled more than 5 or 10 people in a given year. About a year ago, in an effort to prop up the failing LLM program, they launched a "joint degree" program that allows students to add 12 credits onto the JD program and get the JD and the LLM at the same time. While it's not as expensive as paying for 24 or 30 more credits (or whatever the LLM is on its own), it's still extracting 12 more credits' worth of tuition out of those students who are naive enough to believe it will help their careers. My understanding is that there are something like 30 students enrolled in the joint degree program now, so it looks like the LLM program won't be going away any time soon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-16372039615912746902012-10-19T07:24:04.629-07:002012-10-19T07:24:04.629-07:00I know a few with LLMs in IP from John Marshall or...I know a few with LLMs in IP from John Marshall or Franklin Pierce (whatever it's called now), etc.<br /><br />Don't think it helped them any, but don't think it hurt them.<br /><br />By the way, does it really only cost $5K for the LLM at your school, or was that a typo?<br /><br />thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-48076400209201171512012-10-19T07:17:30.149-07:002012-10-19T07:17:30.149-07:00My law school was able to sucker a lot of people i...My law school was able to sucker a lot of people into getting an LLM in intellectual property. Essentially, after extracting three years of tuition out of you at about $110,000, the school figured that students would not mind chipping in extra $5,000 for another piece of paper and three extra initials after your name. <br /><br />Some of those with the LLM in IP are practicing in the field, but I don't think having an LLM gave them any advantage because they are mainly the top students who otherwise would have had a job anyway. Some with an LLM in IP are practicing, but not IP (one is a criminal prosecutor). And then there are some who are not even practicing law at all. Good thing they got that "joint degree." Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-9918355363421269532012-10-19T07:05:49.701-07:002012-10-19T07:05:49.701-07:00Also, Muslims aren't a race either.Also, Muslims aren't a race either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-6211141510744347792012-10-19T07:00:06.296-07:002012-10-19T07:00:06.296-07:00Or "Quod Erat Demonstratum!"
Idiot.Or "Quod Erat Demonstratum!"<br /><br />Idiot.Operators are Standing -- `Bye!noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-64456268419909255482012-10-19T06:59:24.086-07:002012-10-19T06:59:24.086-07:00Or, "Check and MATE!"
Idiot.Or, "Check and MATE!"<br /><br />Idiot.But Wait - There`s MORE!noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-13724715428125054332012-10-19T06:58:25.763-07:002012-10-19T06:58:25.763-07:00Might as well write "FACT!!!".
Idiot.Might as well write "FACT!!!".<br /><br />Idiot.LOL on `Game. Set. Match.`noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-65143435752230792622012-10-19T06:49:17.000-07:002012-10-19T06:49:17.000-07:00"IP LLM do not teach one anything that cant b..."IP LLM do not teach one anything that cant be learned in actual practice or by reading a book."<br /><br />I would revise that to read: "Law schools do not teach one anything that cant be learned in actual practice or by reading a book."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-77607081396060548202012-10-19T05:15:37.426-07:002012-10-19T05:15:37.426-07:00"and you call us the racists"
No, I cal..."and you call us the racists"<br /><br />No, I call anyone with racist views a racist. It's not a sliding scale. You either are or you aren't.<br /><br />And calling someone else a bigger racist than you doesn't absolve you of your own racism.<br /><br />And women's rights are not the same as racism. Women aren't a "race".<br /><br />Game. Set. Match.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-61516332184177170192012-10-19T04:45:37.477-07:002012-10-19T04:45:37.477-07:00To quote the great Scott.Bullock...LLM stands only...To quote the great Scott.Bullock...LLM stands only for law schools looting money.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-44620417466539407482012-10-18T22:31:00.873-07:002012-10-18T22:31:00.873-07:00I actually know a few people who have had small su...I actually know a few people who have had small successes with LLMs. But, like with tax, you have to find the right niche to justify that level of specification, and maybe 5% of the programs in the country are worth a damn. It's basically like a major for a degree that doesn't have them, which is why it pigeonholes you away from most jobs and is a general disadvantage.<br /><br />It's emblematic of one problem with law school: a classroom is no substitute for real experience. But people think the LLM is, and some programs have the gall to market them that way, but it makes you no more practice-ready than the JD.Docnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-18441412449733900872012-10-18T22:03:13.179-07:002012-10-18T22:03:13.179-07:00Which special issues does "entertainment law&...Which special issues does "entertainment law" present? Is there anything about it that justifies framing it as a specialty?<br /><br />One hears about "entertainment law" and "sports law" (doesn't the former subsume the latter?) but never about "welding law" or "copper-smelting law". Could it be that only the glamorous ones get the distinction of a special designation?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-21464565686668202522012-10-18T21:54:22.067-07:002012-10-18T21:54:22.067-07:00Indeed. People in those programs display an amusin...Indeed. People in those programs display an amusing combination of stupidity, naïveté, and arrogance.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-66333775846734745862012-10-18T21:14:19.486-07:002012-10-18T21:14:19.486-07:00Can't speak to all schools but at Columbia and...Can't speak to all schools but at Columbia and NYU the LLM's are mostly in corporate classes, yes. While I am just, litterally, a small-town-boy my NYC classmates like to hire LLM's for a year or two who then go "home" in order to cultivate ties for cross-border deals. So it's win-win for the NY and Cali bars.SmallTownBoynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-58435645563585107792012-10-18T21:00:12.631-07:002012-10-18T21:00:12.631-07:00One more question: Do we in fact see foreign LLM s...One more question: Do we in fact see foreign LLM students generally focus on corporate/deals in their course selection? (Since that would be some evidence of the fact that they are working on international deals and not competing much with US JDs.)Probably not Posnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-43321389355468716602012-10-18T20:55:21.223-07:002012-10-18T20:55:21.223-07:00And that point perhaps explains why we see the LLM...And that point perhaps explains why we see the LLM degree being allowed mostly in the jurisdictions where we see more international deals (NY, CA). <br /><br />I assume that being able to take the bar with only an LLM was a lobbied-for change (ie, the default was JD and then we expanded to allow the LLM in some jurisdictions)? Which would enable us to say that other states haven't so much resisted foreign LLM degrees as simply haven't had a lot of foreign students wanting to practice there?Probably not Posnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-58986391583764509762012-10-18T20:48:54.557-07:002012-10-18T20:48:54.557-07:00That's a good point about it being two differe...That's a good point about it being two different markets. That seems right to me. So, more reason to think that LLM programs for foreign students are probably helpful to foreign students, don't hurt US students, and are thus not so bad?Probably not Posnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-29055264235981742852012-10-18T20:43:03.618-07:002012-10-18T20:43:03.618-07:00Your comment contains the seed of the answer. My ...Your comment contains the seed of the answer. My small-town practice is. ot being muscled in on by foreign LLM's. If you go to NYC (where I went to law school) the LLM's that are employed in BigLaw are working on international deals. So, they are not competing in the same market. It's not as if there is a generic market for "lawyers" like there is for wheat. It's more like restaurants. McDonalds (= Cooley grad) has nothing to do with Bouley (= T14 JD's and LLM's).SmallTownBoynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-35728479682282370752012-10-18T20:27:38.485-07:002012-10-18T20:27:38.485-07:00Another question: does an LLM who passes the bar i...Another question: does an LLM who passes the bar in, say, CA or NY have many options to waive into other states that normally require a JD? Interesting that it's two of the biggest legal markets that allow LLMs.Probably not Posnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-45453104998715623632012-10-18T20:20:36.175-07:002012-10-18T20:20:36.175-07:00It's not surprising that the US lets foreign s...It's not surprising that the US lets foreign students work as lawyers in the US since firms benefit from their connections with their home countries. But given that a lot of other countries do not let foreigners work as lawyers, I do wonder why unemployed US lawyers have not lobbied for more restrictions or at least for making foreign lawyers do the full JD. Any thoughts? Is it a collective action problem? Something that seems un-American?<br /><br />Also, given that NY lets LLMs sit for the bar, do you tend to see more foreign lawyers in NY firms?Probably not Posnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-47646710197500721262012-10-18T19:43:04.187-07:002012-10-18T19:43:04.187-07:00I think STB has proved the point that there is a l...I think STB has proved the point that there is a lot of racism in Saudi Arabia that we should not applaud. Time to declare the point established and move on?Another Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com