tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post4428738806495800428..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: Stop making senseLawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger73125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-20660868533013029022012-05-17T07:38:16.028-07:002012-05-17T07:38:16.028-07:00The problem is not too much government, but too li...The problem is not too much government, but too little. If the government is going to foot the bill, the government should also be controlling how the money is spent, instead of just writing checks.<br /><br />It's really hard to imagine the worst central planner in the former Soviet Union creating twice as many lawyers than the economy could absorb as part of a five year plan. What we have here is a catastrophic failure of right wing free market theory. After all, the whole student loan debacle is the brain child of right wingers like Milton Friedman.<br /><br />So now these right wingers want to eliminate student loans in addition to eliminating public support for higher education. Instead, in their ideal world, only the wealthy would be able to attend college, while the great masses would remain uneducated. In their view, professions like law should be the exclusive domain of the one percent.<br /><br />A better solution would be the European model of merit selection. Seats in the university would be restricted by tough entrance examinations -- like super LSATs, and the state offers free tuition at State Universities for the high scores. Certainly the state should not pay for more degrees than the economy can absorb. <br /><br />And, perhaps, the state should condition the free tuition on the performance of military or other public service? Today's students are forced to work for big law, and do the bidding of the wealthy to pay off their loans. We all know that a big law job is all about getting more for those who already have too much. Would it not make more sense to have students actually do something worthwhile to pay for their education?High Plains Lawyerhttp://yahoo.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-69905206170382314322012-05-16T08:06:31.084-07:002012-05-16T08:06:31.084-07:00"How long is it before UNDERGRADUATE school m..."How long is it before UNDERGRADUATE school makes no sense for most people to attend?"<br /><br />Unless you get really creative… live with parents past 18 (many parents DO NOT want their kids in the house past 18; especially if they moved out when they were young). Then find the right school to be able to work part or full time (better be in a city- and it makes it all that much harder of an adjustment if you didn’t grow up in a city). …too many schools are located in the middle of nowhere or in over saturated college towns where even the most basic jobs are taken. <br /><br />And half the problem with this debt, like law school, is that there are FEW entry level jobs so graduates must wrestle with the debt for years (more lost opportunity costs) before (if) they can get their foot in the door somewhere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-16432048568283392572012-05-16T07:02:41.437-07:002012-05-16T07:02:41.437-07:00@3.24 - trans. "how soon is now"
you to...@3.24 - <i>trans.</i> "how soon is now"<br /><br />you totally missed the opportunity to ref. a Smiths song in a thread with a Talking Heads title.Gilman Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06607416440240634159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-17746810065887834422012-05-16T05:45:33.805-07:002012-05-16T05:45:33.805-07:00JD Painter and 8:22. The people who have raised t...JD Painter and 8:22. The people who have raised tuition 3X on an inflation adjusted basis in the last 25 years are not conservative. Over 90 plus percent of them identify themselves as progressive or liberal, and a good many of them are on the hard left. They view themselves as a deserving elite, i.e., gatekeepers of goodness and light, and of course, it is therefore acceptable for students to go into life altering debt to sustain their status as a mandarin class. Of course, this is met by lots of denial by administrators and faculty, who after all think that higher education ought to be free, so long as their hefty salaries and lifestyle can be maintained. <br /><br />Two points. <br /><br />First, the Government is the huge culprit here. By using naive students as intermediaries, the schools are able to raise their prices with unsecured loan proceeds obtained with scarcely any underwriting or analysis of likelihood of payment. <br /><br />Second, I am no fan of for profit schools, simply because I don't think most of them offer a good value in terms of the education received (I would put a top flight trade school such as Wyotech in a different light, but most don't obtain a reasonable price value relationship or offer degrees which are valued in the private sector). But really, are the traditional not for profit schools much better? I think most are not. Look at a school that is a football team with a university attached - Boise State. Are they really superior to Kaplan, et. al. when they graduate 4% of their students in four years? No. Although simplistic, we have to limit the student loan offerings available to students, as tough as that sounds. Only then can prices decrease and cushy administrations be slimmed down. And while I agree Republicans by and large may be different, the current state of affairs has come about in institutions controlled and dominated by liberals and the left. It is they who are causing direct harm to students.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-45799375981638448762012-05-16T03:57:30.129-07:002012-05-16T03:57:30.129-07:00That's right!. Everybody in America, stay away...That's right!. Everybody in America, stay away from college while the rest of the world sends its young people. Oh, I know-- they can come here and work. All young Americans can become police officers and corrections guards. All we have to do is keep the prison industrial complex going--in part, with many of the people who did not go to college--and it will all be okay.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-63521407381366432732012-05-16T03:24:33.386-07:002012-05-16T03:24:33.386-07:00@ 7:15am
"How long is it before UNDERGRADUAT...@ 7:15am<br /><br />"How long is it before UNDERGRADUATE school makes no sense for most people to attend?"<br /><br />NowAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-54894627662568699522012-05-16T03:12:12.685-07:002012-05-16T03:12:12.685-07:00Sorry to nitpick, but your statement that "ap...Sorry to nitpick, but your statement that "approximately four out of five 2010 law school graduates were not earning even the minimum salary (generously construed) necessary to service what has become the average educational debt necessary to graduate from law school" may be misleading. It seems to imply that law school is completely unaffordable for 80% of graduates. People don't have "average" debt amounts or get "average" jobs. There are probably also a lot of familial resources in hiding, e.g., grandparents and uncles with funds. A lot of boomers have money sitting around in the form of housing and stock that is worth a lot more than when they bought it in the 80s and 90s. I'm guessing the number of people for whom law school is completely unaffordable (i.e., they will ultimately default on their debt) is probably over 50% now (and the number of people for whom law school is a bad decision is probably well above that), but probably no where close to 80%. Your comment about good schools producing people with less debt is very perceptives. There are a fair amount of "haves" that will do just fine, but also plenty of "have nots" who can't even begin to pay back their huge debts. For reference, I say this as someone who had lower middle class parents with a combined income of less than 50K, but was able to graduate from an Ivy undergrad with less than 10K in debt and HYS with less than 70K in debt within the last decade, thanks to living modestly in school, generous financial aid, a little help from relatives and a good summer internship my 2L summer. There may be fewer folks like me now that college and law school costs have zoomed up (and continue to do so), while job prospects have cratered, but there are still plenty of people with (relatively) rich parents who can afford a 200K law school bill...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-36934872981031924462012-05-15T20:22:04.749-07:002012-05-15T20:22:04.749-07:00What is: because Ann is as caring and empathetic a...What is: because Ann is as caring and empathetic as a toilet seat? Seriously, she's one percent, why would she care if a bunch of law students can pay their loans since she's got hers.<br /><br />The law school scam does not fit easily into the liberal / conservative paradigm since it existed under both Bush II and Obama, and arguably even before them.<br /><br />The rise of for profit colleges (such as the University of Phoenix) has also produced lobbists who tell Republicans not to limit federal aid regardless of employment outcomes since such aid benefits what can best be called educational corporations.<br /><br />There are easier political issues to hunt, which can be explained in sound bites so conservatives have left this issue alone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-72218876505683053142012-05-15T19:53:44.085-07:002012-05-15T19:53:44.085-07:00Why doesn't Ann Coulter comment on this blog?
...Why doesn't Ann Coulter comment on this blog?<br /><br />Her not doing so seems kind of slipshod and/or uncaring when she ought to do so.<br /><br />No one is going to bite her, and she has, at the very least, gone to College.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-64898155625448106992012-05-15T19:27:29.520-07:002012-05-15T19:27:29.520-07:00JD Painter, your brush is too broad. Here's R...JD Painter, your brush is too broad. Here's Rush, from last October, on higher education:<br /><br /> Let me make something very clear: I understand, well-rounded person and all of that. My only point is some people aren't cut out for it. Education has to be structured, like I said. You have 200 people in the classroom; you can't tailor it to every individual in that [way]. There has to be a curriculum. It has to be based on what the educators think is the best way to create a, quote, unquote, 'educated person.' I understand all that. It just wasn't for me. It is expensive, but it just wasn't for me. I am not... I don't want anybody to misunderstand here. I am not telling you to punt college. I'm not telling you that's the route that you should take. But I do understand that it is an institution controlled by the left, and I don't trust 'em.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-44294616788612831932012-05-15T19:18:12.047-07:002012-05-15T19:18:12.047-07:00Just a stupid guy that listens to the radio, and h...Just a stupid guy that listens to the radio, and has learned which buttons to press.<br /><br />The art of talk radio is in the boiling down into simplistic language.<br /><br />I think a lot of academics ought to do so too.<br /><br />If they ever did, they would kick the asses of Beck and company into oh, mid century at least.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-21422890039709126552012-05-15T19:13:56.316-07:002012-05-15T19:13:56.316-07:00Let's carry the Republican Party into the futu...Let's carry the Republican Party into the future with all of it's (God help us) de facto and conservative and "uneducated" education hating leaders such as Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, and Ted Nugent into the future.<br /><br />As a matter of fact, why not do away with higher education altogether?<br /><br />I think the extraordinarily intelligent College dropuout Rush Limbagh would approve.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-55441842369189505532012-05-15T19:08:23.902-07:002012-05-15T19:08:23.902-07:00I think you're approaching this from the wrong...I think you're approaching this from the wrong perspective, 6:57 -- although Hannity, Limbaugh and Beck are likely to oppose any attempt to restore the dischargeability of educational debt in bankruptcy, they'll strongly support efforts to get the federal government out of the education-financing business.<br /><br />Everybody hates a scam, except the scam artist. Here, "everybody" includes people from across the political spectrum, while the scam artists primarily live at two extremes: the educrats are overwhelmingly on the left, and the banksters are overwhelmingly on the right. As the song says, here I am, stuck in the middle with you.....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-21103527742021936842012-05-15T19:04:58.142-07:002012-05-15T19:04:58.142-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-25177313323314396732012-05-15T18:57:07.693-07:002012-05-15T18:57:07.693-07:00In my opinion, Hannity and Limbaugh and Beck are e...In my opinion, Hannity and Limbaugh and Beck are extremely talented political speakers, with rare gifts, and very formidable foes of any kind of potential plans that will favor the consumer over student loan debt.<br /><br />They have the national audience, and, let's face it, on this blog, and compared to them we are all a bunch of hacks and elite and overeducatred grass roots, minority "Expressives"<br /><br />With no effect.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-40384166115110513292012-05-15T18:40:43.366-07:002012-05-15T18:40:43.366-07:00Dear 6:04 pm:
Just a couple of facts to ...Dear 6:04 pm: <br /><br /> Just a couple of facts to try to fit into your worldview: first, your list of "de facto but true political leaders of the Republican party who are all on Fox" is two-thirds incorrect, since Limbaugh and Beck don't appear on Fox. Also, common nouns like "college" and "conservatives" don't need to be capitalized; in contrast, when writing "Republican party," you _should_ capitalize "Party," since it is part of a proper noun. <br /><br /> Love, <br /><br /> -- Another education-hating conservativeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-33526672241766259152012-05-15T18:30:53.018-07:002012-05-15T18:30:53.018-07:00@6:04,
If the situation at Fox is as you describe...@6:04,<br /><br />If the situation at Fox is as you describe, it's hard to see why they wouldn't want to go after academia, which has long tilted left. <br /><br />In particular, law school would seem to be a favorite target, as the legal profession is very intertwined with the Democrats. When was the last time that the Democratic ticket didn't have BOTH presidential and vice-presidential candidates that went to law school? Jimmy Carter in 80?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-77958870468870084892012-05-15T18:24:17.947-07:002012-05-15T18:24:17.947-07:00@ 5:23. We've actually been OVER-producing mat...@ 5:23. We've actually been OVER-producing math and hard-science PhDs for years now. Source: http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110420/full/472276a.html?success=true<br />I've heard that Europe has been struggling with a PhD glut since the 1970s. What would we accomplish by having even more scientists? We don't accomplish much even with the ones we have already.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-58739533808551854742012-05-15T18:15:32.299-07:002012-05-15T18:15:32.299-07:00The case of Virginia Foxx is interesting as she si...The case of Virginia Foxx is interesting as she sits on the Committee of Education, and the Subcommittee of Higher Education and Workforce Training. I think she might be involved in a committee specifically looking at student loans, if its not one of the above two<br /><br />And per records, she has received "campaign funds" from Higher Education Loan companies<br /><br />Any wonder why she condemns student loan debtors?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-65746942668997478012012-05-15T18:04:47.374-07:002012-05-15T18:04:47.374-07:00Getting onto FOX will be impossible for Campos.
...Getting onto FOX will be impossible for Campos. <br /><br />The de facto but true political leaders of the Republican party who are all on Fox, such as Hannity, Limbaugh, and even Glenn Beck, never even finished College, nor cared to finish even after doing well in life for many years.<br /><br />Hannity even had Ted Nugent (high school education) sing at one of Hannity's freedom concerts. <br /><br />The Conservatives and Republicans are anti higher education and all about lending and profit.<br /><br />Virginia Foxx (no relation to the channel) even strongly condemned student loan debtors.<br /><br />No, Fox is a dead end in terms of popular politics which, unfortunately sways elections.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-59423854694606990032012-05-15T17:58:40.044-07:002012-05-15T17:58:40.044-07:00At a ceremony to honor a $100 million donation fro...At a ceremony to honor a $100 million donation from Leslie Wexner, the clothing magnate and Ohio State graduate, Mr. Gee choked back tears.<br /><br />“Every time I get a lot of money I cry,” Mr. Gee told the crowd. “And I got a lot of tears left.” <br /><br />-sorry I couldn't help but post another quote from NYT. Wow. Wow.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-67129588500562105082012-05-15T17:45:01.199-07:002012-05-15T17:45:01.199-07:00Campos
You are doing a great job, and its clear t...Campos<br /><br />You are doing a great job, and its clear that the issue is beginning to reach mainstream media outlets. One thing I will say, is that if you can get more appearances on television, such as you did with CBS, it will be very beneficial.<br /><br />Because it is with television that you can reach more Baby Boomers that are instrumental in the decisions of their children. The older generation watches television for news more than using the internet.<br /><br />Try to get onto CNN/Fox/MSNBC if possible (I know, I know - easier said than done)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-33751534745302078702012-05-15T17:38:18.364-07:002012-05-15T17:38:18.364-07:00Editing: purchasers of goods
Comma after "me&...Editing: purchasers of goods<br />Comma after "me"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-73153827319517147532012-05-15T17:36:38.646-07:002012-05-15T17:36:38.646-07:005:23:
Bullshit. There is no real safe major. Th...5:23:<br /><br />Bullshit. There is no real safe major. The STEM majors, STEM PhDs included, are hurting just like everyone else.<br /><br />There are not enough jobs to go around. We are producing too many graduates for too few jobs in every profession. Law just happens to be one of the worst. If you don't believe, me ASK someone in these fields. Not hard to look people up.<br /><br />JD Painter: Hang on, there will be forgiveness on these loans. The fucked up system cannot sustain itself...the system needs purchasers of gods. As of today, I am going to start using all my deferment and forbearance until it all run out. No sense in making the full payment on something that will be forgiven.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-27225050864094348142012-05-15T17:34:53.203-07:002012-05-15T17:34:53.203-07:00Mr. Gee’s compensation package this year, moreover...Mr. Gee’s compensation package this year, moreover, is worth about $2 million, and The Chronicle of Higher Education has called him the highest-paid public university president. The Dayton Daily News recently reported that Mr. Gee had billed Ohio State for $550,000 in travel in the last two years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com