tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post356555871930952327..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: Cooking the booksLawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger115125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-75751246433118816242011-11-13T17:17:50.158-08:002011-11-13T17:17:50.158-08:00Bro, you need to write a post itemizing all the wa...Bro, you need to write a post itemizing all the ways you pwned that nutcase point by point with citations to the comments. Go for the kill move bro.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-30053207074889306322011-11-13T17:03:45.773-08:002011-11-13T17:03:45.773-08:00Nutcase doesn't understand compound interest, ...Nutcase doesn't understand compound interest, IBR or how the ABA uses "statistics" despite helpful explanations from others. Nutcase posts hundreds of comments. Nutcase is angry.<br /><br />It is guys like you who ruin blogs like these.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-67588745223252067332011-11-13T13:44:44.740-08:002011-11-13T13:44:44.740-08:00Here are all of the ABA accreditation standards, i...Here are all of the ABA accreditation standards, if anyone is curious.<br /><br />http://www.americanbar.org/groups/legal_education/resources/standards.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-13964810646465821152011-11-13T12:26:30.801-08:002011-11-13T12:26:30.801-08:00"I suspect that none of the players in this g..."I suspect that none of the players in this game--schools, ABA, Dept of Ed--will want to disclose IBR rates."<br /><br />That's the whole point. You can catch the ABA red handed in this attempt to hide important information by commenting on the new rule 510-2.<br /><br />I'm not saying the ABA will listen to you. They are Madoffian/Enronian white collar criminals, but don't let them slip this new rule without even a debate.<br /><br />Standard 510 requires that accredited law schools have performing loans. They are creating a new rules re: Standard 510, a new fraudulent statistic that states if less than 10% of your student loans "default" then you comply with with 510. We should be telling them, "NO! student loan default is meaningless in a world with IBR and so your new 510-2 does not assess the performance of student loans. You need to also is IBR and deferment rates to comply with the spirit of Standard 510."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-89502385946905875102011-11-13T12:12:29.317-08:002011-11-13T12:12:29.317-08:00To make this completely idiot proof, here is what ...To make this completely idiot proof, here is what Interpretation 510-2 should say:<br /><br />"Interpretation 510-2 For law schools, the school’s student loan cohort default rate shall be sufficient, for purposes of Standard 510, if the percentage of students who enter the Income Based Repayment program, get an economic hardship deferments on their student loans, get an unemployment deferment on their student loans or default on their student loans is no greater than 25% for any two consecutive graduating classes."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-22246378140344285642011-11-13T12:05:26.009-08:002011-11-13T12:05:26.009-08:00Let me try to paste it again,
Standard 510. STUDE...Let me try to paste it again,<br /><br />Standard 510. STUDENT LOAN PROGRAMS<br /><br />A law school shall take reasonable steps to minimize student loan defaults, including provision of debt counseling at the inception of a student’s loan obligations and prior to graduation.<br /><br />Interpretation 510-1 - The student loan default rates of a law school’s graduates, including any results of financial or compliance audits and reviews, shall be considered in assessing the extent to which a law school complies with this Standard.<br /><br />(Proposed) Interpretation 510-2 For law schools not affiliated with a university, the school’s student loan cohort default rate shall be sufficient, for purposes of Standard 510, if it is not greater than 10% for any of the three most recently published annual cohort default rates. If the school’s cohort student loan default rate is not sufficient under this Interpretation, the school must submit a plan for approval by the Accreditation Committee for coming into compliance with this requirement. Failure to comply with title IV or having a student loan cohort default rate greater than the rate permitted by title IV is cause for review of a law school’s overall compliance with the Standards. Schools shall demonstrate that they have resolved all areas of deficiency identified in financial or compliance audits, program reviews or other information provided by the United States Department of Education.<br /><br />http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/administrative/legal_education_and_admissions_to_the_bar/council_reports_and_resolutions/2011_proposed_standard_510_and_rules_5_and_22.authcheckdam.pdfLink to new misleading ABA rule 510-2 that you need to comment on can I spell it out any more clearly?!http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/administrative/legal_education_and_admissions_to_the_bar/council_reports_and_resolutions/2011_proposed_standard_510_and_rules_5_and_22.authcheckdam.pdfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-10190983965987954452011-11-13T12:03:00.922-08:002011-11-13T12:03:00.922-08:00Hopefully this all pastes into the comment.
Stand...Hopefully this all pastes into the comment.<br /><br />Standard 510. STUDENT LOAN PROGRAMS<br />A law school shall take reasonable steps to minimize student loan defaults, including<br />provision of debt counseling at the inception of a student’s loan obligations and<br />prior to graduation.<br />Interpretation 510-1<br />The student loan default rates of a law school’s graduates, including any results of<br />financial or compliance audits and reviews, shall be considered in assessing the extent to<br />which a law school complies with this Standard.<br />Interpretation 510-2<br />For law schools not affiliated with a university, the school’s student loan cohort default<br />rate shall be sufficient, for purposes of Standard 510, if it is not greater than 10% for any<br />of the three most recently published annual cohort default rates. If the school’s cohort<br />student loan default rate is not sufficient under this Interpretation, the school must submit<br />a plan for approval by the Accreditation Committee for coming into compliance with this<br />requirement.<br />Failure to comply with title IV or having a student loan cohort default rate greater than<br />the rate permitted by title IV is cause for review of a law school’s overall compliance<br />with the Standards. Schools shall demonstrate that they have resolved all areas of<br />deficiency identified in financial or compliance audits, program reviews<br /><br />http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/administrative/legal_education_and_admissions_to_the_bar/council_reports_and_resolutions/2011_proposed_standard_510_and_rules_5_and_22.authcheckdam.pdfLink for ABA's new rule 510-2http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/administrative/legal_education_and_admissions_to_the_bar/council_reports_and_resolutions/2011_proposed_standard_510_and_rules_5_and_22.authcheckdam.pdfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-48093692143217977022011-11-13T12:00:18.740-08:002011-11-13T12:00:18.740-08:00Link to the source
http://www.americanbar.org/con...Link to the source<br /><br />http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/administrative/legal_education_and_admissions_to_the_bar/council_reports_and_resolutions/2011_notice_and_comment_s510_rules_22_and_5.authcheckdam.pdf<br /><br />(or you can click on my name).<br /><br />For some of the quotes you have to click a link in the letter linked above.ABA Fraud Linkhttp://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/administrative/legal_education_and_admissions_to_the_bar/council_reports_and_resolutions/2011_notice_and_comment_s510_rules_22_and_5.authcheckdam.pdfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-35981877148091738782011-11-13T11:57:48.610-08:002011-11-13T11:57:48.610-08:00I guess I need to provide "paint by numbers&q...I guess I need to provide "paint by numbers" style step by step quotes for the person above. See below. You can confirm these quotes by clicking through the links in the letter I link above (and that you can find by clicking on my name in this comment).<br /><br />"ABA Standards for Approval of Law Schools . . . Standard 510" - This quote means the new rule affects accreditation.<br /><br />***THE NEW RULE*** SECTION 510-2, "Interpretation 510-2<br />For law schools not affiliated with a university, the school’s student loan cohort default<br />rate shall be sufficient, for purposes of Standard 510, if it is not greater than 10% for any<br />of the three most recently published annual cohort default rates." -- This is the NEW STATISTIC THAT THE ABA IS INTRODUCING. THEY ARE SAYING THAT IF YOUR "DEFAULT" RATE IS UNDER 10% THEN YOU SATISFY THE DOE'S REQUIREMENT THAT STUDENT LOANS BE PAID BACK.<br /><br />What you can do is write them a simple letter stating that a 10% default rate under the current definition does not accurately reflect the number of nonperforming loans, and that a better new rule would be to create a standard that reflects defaults (that again, no one ever does anymore because you have IBR), IBR and deferments. <br /><br />I hope this was clear enough but if you want I can literally prepare a paint by numbers walk through for you. <br /><br />Again, THIS IS A NEW FRAUDULENT ABA STATISTIC, BEING CREATED RIGHT IN FRONT OF OUR EYES, AND NOT ONE SCAMBLOG PROFESSOR HAS EVEN DISCUSSED IT.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-33251407149518541882011-11-13T09:26:57.071-08:002011-11-13T09:26:57.071-08:00ABA Fraud: One reason you are not seeing discussi...ABA Fraud: One reason you are not seeing discussion on your suggestion is because the suggestion doesn't fit with what the ABA is actually doing. The ABA is not creating this statistic; nor is it creating the new rule that affects independent law schools with default rates over 10%. The Department of Education created both the statistic and the standard. The statistic actually isn't new--the Department has been calculating these default rates for schools for quite some time now. <br /><br />The thing that is new is that the Department has now created IBR. *But* the Department is not, to the best I can determine, releasing IBR numbers to accrediting organizations (like the ABA) or individual schools. There was much discussion yesterday about how easy it would be to calculate these numbers, and that may be true. But the Department of Ed has the numbers and is the only one that can do the calculating--unless you want law schools to start another half-assed attempt to gather numbers from their graduates. <br /><br />I agree with you that one effect of IBR is that it will cover up much of the scandal associated with tuition rates and debt-ridden graduates. I would like to get more info about IBR amounts and rates out. But someone has to put pressure on the Dept of Education to do that. As someone wrote yesterday, the ABA doesn't have power over the Dept of Ed; they can't just command the Dept to disclose certain info. And the Dept of Ed has its own reasons for wanting to keep those IBR numbers private. <br /><br />It might be worth writing a letter to the ABA, asking them to request the Dept of Ed to calculate IBR information and report that information to both the ABA and individual schools. You could also ask the ABA, if the Dept of Ed complies, to require schools to publish these data. <br /><br />I suspect that none of the players in this game--schools, ABA, Dept of Ed--will want to disclose IBR rates. But the Dept of Ed really is the key. If they disclose that information, it's on the public record--whatever the ABA or individual schools do. Among other things, that means it's available for the media and US News rankings. On the other hand, if the Dept of Ed doesn't disclose the information, nobody else has the info to disclose to anyone.<br /><br />Your heart may be in the right place, but you've got to read the document you posted (and the click-through information from that document) more closely. If you start writing letters to the ABA accusing them of creating a new statistic, they'll just think you're a nutcase who can't read federal regulations. Same result if you persuade Campos or others to write this type of letter. And meanwhile, a lot of time gets wasted by people trying to figure out what you're referring to.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-20275785297745584302011-11-13T08:25:15.514-08:002011-11-13T08:25:15.514-08:00(link here; click my name "ABA Fraud")(link here; click my name "ABA Fraud")ABA Fraudhttp://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/administrative/legal_education_and_admissions_to_the_bar/council_reports_and_resolutions/2011_notice_and_comment_s510_rules_22_and_5.authcheckdam.pdfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-86511043814228634272011-11-13T08:23:52.429-08:002011-11-13T08:23:52.429-08:00This new ABA statistic will grossly understate the...This new ABA statistic will grossly understate the ability of students to pay back their loans. It will be another fraudulent statistic, designed by the ABA to mislead applicants and the public about the value of law school. For example, someone will look at NYLS's statistic and see a 0.1% default rate (the 0.1% being the one person who was too lazy to fill out an IBR form). Based on that, and NYLS's high tuition, they will assume NYLS students are repaying their loan. This will make NYLS's $50,000 per year tuition seem less onerous and the applicant will borrow money to attend NYLS. Had the applicant seen the percentage of graduates using deferments and IBR, it would paint a different picture - one of crushing and insurmountable debt.<br /><br />Unlike the ABA's job placement statistics, YOU CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS RIGHT NOW. The link (click on my name) gives you the person to contact to protest this new statistic. Her email is Becky.Stretch@americanbar.org. <br /><br />It's one thing to write blog posts about "cooking the numbers" but it's another to nip new "number cooking" techniques in the bud. So far not one academic has talked about, or written to the ABA about this new scam. Not one. Not Campos, not Tamanaha, not Horwitz, not Leiter, not a single person. That's a shame.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-70128879681933862762011-11-13T08:23:47.298-08:002011-11-13T08:23:47.298-08:00If I could please get back to the topic of "c...If I could please get back to the topic of "cooking the numbers", On November 15, the ABA is going to create a NEW STATISTIC designed to measure the performance of law school loans. You can read about it by clicking on my name ("New ABA fraud.")<br /><br />This new measure WAS DESIGNED TO BE FRAUDULENT. It purports to measure the ability of students to pay back loans, but it does so by only counting students who "default." They intentionally do not payments missed because the student went on deferments and IBR. <br /><br />The problem is no one would ever default under the current system. Defaults occured under the OLD system when deferments ran out and IBR wasn't available. Under the new system, you can go on IBR for as many years as you want.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-46645845065397796102011-11-13T08:22:02.951-08:002011-11-13T08:22:02.951-08:00If I could please get back to the topic of "c...If I could please get back to the topic of "cooking the numbers", On November 15, the ABA is going to create a NEW STATISTIC designed to measure the performance of law school loans. You can read about it by clicking on my name ("New ABA fraud.")<br /><br />This new measure WAS DESIGNED TO BE FRAUDULENT. It purports to measure the ability of students to pay back loans, but it does so by only counting students who "default." They intentionally do not payments missed because the student went on deferments and IBR. <br /><br />The problem is no one would ever default under the current system. Defaults occured under the OLD system when deferments ran out and IBR wasn't available. Under the new system, you can go on IBR for as many years as you want. <br /><br />This new ABA statistic will grossly understate the ability of students to pay back their loans. It will be another fraudulent statistic, designed by the ABA to mislead applicants and the public about the value of law school. For example, someone will look at NYLS's statistic and see a 0.1% default rate (the 0.1% being the one person who was too lazy to fill out an IBR form). Based on that, and NYLS's high tuition, they will assume NYLS students are repaying their loan. This will make NYLS's $50,000 per year tuition seem less onerous and the applicant will borrow money to attend NYLS. Had the applicant seen the percentage of graduates using deferments and IBR, it would paint a different picture - one of crushing and insurmountable debt.<br /><br />Unlike the ABA's job placement statistics, YOU CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS RIGHT NOW. The link (click on my name) gives you the person to contact to protest this new statistic. Her email is Becky.Stretch@americanbar.org. <br /><br />It's one thing to write blog posts about "cooking the numbers" but it's another to nip new "number cooking" techniques in the bud. So far not one academic has talked about, or written to the ABA about this new scam. Not one. Not Campos, not Tamanaha, not Horwitz, not Leiter, not a single person. That's a shame.New ABA fraudhttp://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/administrative/legal_education_and_admissions_to_the_bar/council_reports_and_resolutions/2011_notice_and_comment_s510_rules_22_and_5.authcheckdam.pdfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-25175555171246012452011-11-13T07:57:49.160-08:002011-11-13T07:57:49.160-08:00Bro, summarize all the ways you panes that guy lin...Bro, summarize all the ways you panes that guy line by line. use citations to the comments so everyone can see.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-52185128371201160152011-11-13T01:01:42.722-08:002011-11-13T01:01:42.722-08:00only one moron here.only one moron here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-90711498774260809162011-11-12T22:36:26.011-08:002011-11-12T22:36:26.011-08:00So many morons. So little time.So many morons. So little time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-35243717229300486182011-11-12T21:41:57.166-08:002011-11-12T21:41:57.166-08:00Keep flailing bro...Keep flailing bro...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-2328883659538254022011-11-12T19:51:55.938-08:002011-11-12T19:51:55.938-08:007:32, are you blind? 7:20 totally lost that debate...7:32, are you blind? 7:20 totally lost that debate. He did not win a single point and so has nothing to summarize!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-57408996627054344142011-11-12T19:41:08.054-08:002011-11-12T19:41:08.054-08:004:15, are you still around? How much did IBR reduc...4:15, are you still around? How much did IBR reduce your required payments this year?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-50824558895001668822011-11-12T19:32:43.651-08:002011-11-12T19:32:43.651-08:00Bro, You should write a post summarizing point by ...Bro, You should write a post summarizing point by point all the ways you destroyed that idiot. I've been following the thread but some newcomer could benefit from a nice summary.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-72394383644832951432011-11-12T19:22:03.821-08:002011-11-12T19:22:03.821-08:00@7:17 - what won't you say? You have been dest...@7:17 - what won't you say? You have been destroyed line by line, point by point. Yelling online, mixing up arguments....you got schooled. Badly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-68684963000040136722011-11-12T19:20:01.438-08:002011-11-12T19:20:01.438-08:00Ok, says the psychopath who embarrassed himself al...Ok, says the psychopath who embarrassed himself all over this thread. <br /><br />Again, about that compounded interest? gain, about the forgiveness of the principal after 25 years?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-83233344755079072772011-11-12T19:17:36.202-08:002011-11-12T19:17:36.202-08:006:19, you're evidence that some unemployed law...6:19, you're evidence that some unemployed law grads deserve to be unemployed - because they're mentally ill.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-36374993685414029382011-11-12T19:16:47.434-08:002011-11-12T19:16:47.434-08:00Good comeback. You forgot:
"I am sorry good...Good comeback. You forgot:<br /><br />"I am sorry good sir. It is I that is the asshole. I failed to understand what compounded interest is and I thank you, good sir, for finally explaining it to me. Furthermore, I jumped the gun and spoke out of turn when I accused you of not researching the topic. I was the one who failed to do basic research. I now know that interest does NOT compound under IBR. I apologize for wasting everyone's time with my sad attempt at distracting with side issues and muddying the waters with off-topic nonsense. Again, thank you good sir. You are far smarter than I and I will now crawl into a hole and rock myself gently to sleep, repeating over and over again, 'I am an idiot, why do I open my mouth? I am an idiot, why do I open my mouth?' Please forgive me."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com