tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post3186868495137612060..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: Smart MoneyLawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger104125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-82412247331493228052012-06-14T10:07:14.476-07:002012-06-14T10:07:14.476-07:00Both are wrinkled, dry and bitter. Why do you ask...Both are wrinkled, dry and bitter. Why do you ask?I_have_a_namehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17856509644618792070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-66083993956637968772012-06-12T05:01:52.551-07:002012-06-12T05:01:52.551-07:00Which is sweeter: Madonna's 53 year old nipple...Which is sweeter: Madonna's 53 year old nipple or the Student Loan Sugar Teat?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-18779991713725303982012-06-12T04:26:06.449-07:002012-06-12T04:26:06.449-07:00The baby boomer bashing is just a goof and of cour...The baby boomer bashing is just a goof and of course I respect and take care of my older parents. <br /><br />And again, I really do think that the JD in the non legal job marketplace is an uncomfortable thing, and is frowned upon.<br /><br />Perhaps another reason is that some people feel intimidated by lawyers, although I never understood why.<br /><br />To try and illustrate what I mean, here is another anectdotal story:<br /><br />Once upon a time, when I was working at non legal jobs, the managers or other employees of the respective companies would sometimes amble up to my desk with a sheepish expression and ask me about some sort of legal question, or ask me about the meaning of a legal term that they had jotted down on a yellow post it paper.<br /><br />I would most often reply: "I don't know but I will look it up."<br /><br />Then they would look at me very strangely before shuffling off, mumbling perhaps, and seemingly very disappointed.<br /><br />One time a young executive paid my cubicle a visit and told me in a low voice about a fender bender he had been in over the previous weekend, and the young executive asked me if I thought he would be sued.<br /><br />I again replied: "I don't know" (And I really did not :(<br /><br />The young executive then jabbed me with his forefinger. I suppose he did this to make sure I was not a ghost or rather a phantom lawyer, and seemed very perplexed that I did not have the answer to his questions about the accident.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-35830809437931299762012-06-12T04:05:27.526-07:002012-06-12T04:05:27.526-07:007:21
The inter-generational bickering exists beca...7:21<br /><br />The inter-generational bickering exists because there isn't enough money to go around, public debt is astronomical because prior generations did not demand that their politicians budget well, and because of the existence of an entitlement system that is funded by current contributions and won't exist in the future.<br /><br />And yes, it is in large part the fault of the baby boomers, so fuck them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-71900392545221310722012-06-11T21:19:00.980-07:002012-06-11T21:19:00.980-07:00I wonder how much of this is due to the state of t...I wonder how much of this is due to the state of the economy--in other words, if less deals are being made, less lawyers are needed. Perhaps when the economy picks up so will the demand for lawyers.Alexhttp://www.thewillingteacher.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-17113533431430020062012-06-11T21:14:26.352-07:002012-06-11T21:14:26.352-07:00"to me it appears that people complaining abo..."to me it appears that people complaining about the salary of entry level positions can distract from a much bigger risk in attending law school."<br /><br />The two are inextricable, and both inextricable from the greater fraud.<br /><br />"My suspicion is that HR departments at places like a marketing firm or something might be skeptical of people they perceive as failed lawyers more so than the actual JD.(fair or not)"<br /><br />Then you would need to explain why successful long-term lawyers have problems leaving the law.Docnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-20656798895488749572012-06-11T21:00:50.165-07:002012-06-11T21:00:50.165-07:007:18PM here again
My apologies,
although a littl...7:18PM here again<br /><br />My apologies,<br /><br />although a little more than 70% of Americans do not have a college degree a much larger number (I believe around 60%) have attended at least one post high school institution.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-13887552874657193972012-06-11T20:08:42.897-07:002012-06-11T20:08:42.897-07:007:18 here
I am not 100% sure Morse Code for J re...7:18 here <br /><br />I am not 100% sure Morse Code for J read the last paragraph either. I never said it was okay for law schools to be dishonest about how much their grads are making. I said 37k was okay at the entry level, where frankly its okay to have the same amount of exposable income as someone who is stocking shelves.<br /><br />I am not entirely fond of the 50 hours of Pro Bono work that New York will be requiring in 2013, but I like the direction it's going in for two reasons. 1.) If there was a more extensive post law school requirement to join the bar it might repel people who think law school isn't a huge commitment and that it will necessarily lead to riches and 2.) I think a number of new lawyers need a way to learn to respect the 70% of Americans who never went to any college.<br /><br />Also in my last paragraph I said that the number of legal jobs that exist is a far bigger issue than how much the ones that exist already pay.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-27868118948600127372012-06-11T19:45:27.033-07:002012-06-11T19:45:27.033-07:00@7:18 p.m.:
When every law school charges their s...@7:18 p.m.:<br /><br />When every law school charges their students as though every law graduate made the Real Money, it's a problem. I don't care that you think it's just fine to start out making $37,000 or $65,000 or some other figure substantially less than every statement of median starting salary made by a given law school or its representatives.<br /><br />Incidentally, the debt service on $100,000 at 6.8% interest is $1,150 a month. A lawyer making $37,000 has a net income of somewhere around $30,000 before state income taxes, for a monthly net of $2,500. That $1,150 comes out of his monthly net salary, leaving him with $1,350 a month - the same or less than what he could have made working a cash register or stocking shelves. Of course, he's not paying that much because of IBR - for however long that program lasts. Hopefully he'll actually find work in the law and develop experience in his practice area, which might lead to him making more than $37,000 later. Or it might not.<br /><br />Since the last two years have done nothing but vindicate what scam blogs have said for the last five years, I will go with their intuition (and mine, as a recent graduate) over yours pending the detailed study whose recommendations will come too late to help any of us.Morse Code for Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15533833808776688455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-27072450795276999292012-06-11T19:44:04.622-07:002012-06-11T19:44:04.622-07:00@7:32
Did you read the last paragraph of 7:18?@7:32<br /><br />Did you read the last paragraph of 7:18?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-69990231578784029112012-06-11T19:32:21.119-07:002012-06-11T19:32:21.119-07:00@ 7:18pm
The argument against the law school scam...@ 7:18pm<br /><br />The argument against the law school scam isn't that all these lawyers have to "settle" for $60k or even $37k legal jobs to start. It is that there aren't enough jobs to go around. And long term many JD graduates simply won't make enough to pay back their loans.<br /><br />The fact that 32 people applied for a $10k/year job should tell you all you need to know about lawyers not willing to settle for low paying entry level jobs. This is a myth that is simply untrue. The problem is that there simply aren't enough jobs to go around, even at 10k or even free internship jobs!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-68679453732935308082012-06-11T19:21:33.961-07:002012-06-11T19:21:33.961-07:00I often see some very vehement comments on this bl...I often see some very vehement comments on this blog and elsewhere that places blame on previous generation(s), and I don't really understand it. I wasn't born here, but I've spent the majority of my life in this country. I was brought up to believe that I owe a natural and moral duty to my parents, that just as they raised, provided for, and nurtured me when I was young and helpless, when they are old and infirm it would be my turn to take care for them. I am happy to pay into SSI and the like because I can--and I think I should--pay to the older generations like my grandparents.<br /><br />My parents likewise never said:"this is my money." or "this is your money." Because really if we are going to do the math, I don't think I can ever properly repay what my parents have done for me. When I was choosing my undergrad school, they told me, don't worry about the cost, we will pay for it, pick the best school. I know they would have gladly done it and never think "my bum daughter now owes me $200k!" even though that is an astronomical sum for them. (I ended up picking a state college that gave me a full ride + stipend, because I didn't want to add to their burden)<br /><br />So I don't understand this divide. Why is it us against them? Aren't the boomers our parents and our grandparents--our family? Why shouldn't we pay for their retirement? Aren't our interests linked? Like, I know my parents would have refinanced their house if that's what it took to pay for my college, but I didn't want them to do that and, without mentioning everything else and speaking just from a purely selfish perspective, that's something that could become part of my inheritance. And, if they didn't think like they're my parents and thought solely from a rational person standard, wouldn't they still have every interest in helping me to succeed? If I become rich and successful then I can give my parents a very cushy late life. If the young generation grow up mostly successful and can pay heartily into SSI, that's great for the boomers isn't it? <br /><br />I just don't think all the finger-pointing (older generation got theirs and now wants to screw the younger generation, younger generation needs to stop being entitled whiny brats, etc.) really helps matters or even make any sense. We're all rats on the same ship, so if it sinks we're all screwed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-49656154729625081492012-06-11T19:18:34.336-07:002012-06-11T19:18:34.336-07:00I am not sure I have heard about a bias against JD...I am not sure I have heard about a bias against JDs in HR departments outside of the scam blogs. I could see how one could might develop but I have also heard about schools like the University of the District of Columbia that have a number of part time mid career students who enroll primarily to gain legal knowledge more so than an intent to practice law. My suspicion is that HR departments at places like a marketing firm or something might be skeptical of people they perceive as failed lawyers more so than the actual JD.(fair or not)<br /><br />I am no expert on this matter but I am concerned with the attitude towards the money being made by new lawyers on scam blogs. Consider that a number of law grads went straight to law school from undergrad and also went straight to undergrad from high school. A lot of law grads are basically looking for their first or second full time job when they graduate. Even with a large debt, I really don't think 65k is a bad pay day for an entry level position, and I am not so sure 35-40k is terrible at the beginning of a career either. People in the 30 and 40ks are obviously going to struggle quite a bit paying off debt at first but I am doubt a lawyer making 37k is going to be making 37k for the rest of his or her life. And although you are going to be very, very poor doing it, 37k can service debt and I think that's just a part of breaking into the job market in any field. Doing something like building a clientele and establishing yourself are things that are going to take time and hard work. It just seems silly to expect a high paying job in a field you have never worked before in your life, especially if it's you're first full time job. The feeling I get is that a lot of people attend law school thinking they will get rich and don't have sincere interest in legal issues or anything similar.<br /> <br />I don't know if Campos takes requests but I would really appreciate some blog entries on longitudinal studies like After the JD and also on how the class of 08 is doing right now. Most of what I read about on the blogs is just about students about a year out.<br /><br />Now of course, whether or not those jobs I spoke of a moment ago are actually there can be problematic. I think the law schools are likely going to have to respond to the fact that there seems to be twice as many new law graduates as there is legal work available every year. Although I understand issues with the level of honesty in reporting employment data, to me it appears that people complaining about the salary of entry level positions can distract from a much bigger risk in attending law school.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-22788715169329718112012-06-11T18:33:31.318-07:002012-06-11T18:33:31.318-07:00One more try:
If Life is motion towards knowledg...One more try:<br /><br /><br />If Life is motion towards knowledge,<br /><br />and God is all knowledge,<br /><br />then God is non motion, or, in other words, death.<br /><br />Therefore God is dead.<br /><br />And to conclude: If, as Baby Boomer icon John Lennon said: All you need is love<br /><br />and God is all Love, but, <br /><br />as I have already proved, God is dead,<br /><br /><br />then what baby boomer icon John lennon was really saying was:<br /><br />All you need is death.<br /><br />And in the wake of God's death shall flow inhumane usury and debt slavery etc. compliments of the Hippies.<br /><br />What an evil generation the boomers, and all of their pop idols are.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-85828269446608577462012-06-11T18:27:29.326-07:002012-06-11T18:27:29.326-07:00John Lennon and the Beatles are probably the best ...John Lennon and the Beatles are probably the best poster people for American musical commodity Capitalism, and there is a very old Japanese lady in very old blue goggles that will concur.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-24984386318541350122012-06-11T18:22:33.770-07:002012-06-11T18:22:33.770-07:00All you need is love and God is all love you mean?...All you need is love and God is all love you mean?<br /><br />And therefore John Lennon was both non motion towards knowledge and anti Life?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-61618512513873502172012-06-11T18:18:33.319-07:002012-06-11T18:18:33.319-07:00Oh come on 4:50PM!
Go back to the Scamblogs!
If...Oh come on 4:50PM! <br /><br />Go back to the Scamblogs!<br /><br />If Life is motion towards knowledge,<br /><br />and God is all knowledge,<br /><br />then God is non motion, or, in other words, death.<br /><br />Therefore God is dead.<br /><br />And to conclude: If, as Baby Boomer icon John Lennon said: All you need is Love<br /><br />and as I have already proved, God is dead,<br /><br />then what baby boomer icon John lennon was really saying was:<br /><br />All you need is death.<br /><br />And in the wake of God's death shall flow inhumane usury and debt slavery etc. compliments of the Hippies.<br /><br />Sincerely, 4;50PM.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-74857236329453074422012-06-11T18:10:22.952-07:002012-06-11T18:10:22.952-07:00Has LawProf talked about the LLM ads in the Nation...Has LawProf talked about the LLM ads in the National Jurist which look to be totally aimed at credulous law students and SUCKERS.<br /><br />An ad from St. John's Law School for its LLM in International and Comparative Sports Law??!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!<br /><br />WHAT THE PLUCK!<br /><br />Then there are the rest of the LLM ads for the education business.<br /><br />Has anyone discussed the National Jurist?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-7062375475159411742012-06-11T16:50:57.861-07:002012-06-11T16:50:57.861-07:00Dear Jack of all trades, and too bored to master a...Dear Jack of all trades, and too bored to master any of them:<br /><br />Your mastery of international bullshit might go over well at a billion dollar University cocktail party, but no matter how intelligent a person is, it takes a lifetime of devotion to master any trade, and much pain and sacrifice.<br /><br />And this is what I mean when I say this blog has mainly well set up and detatched people that are shitters and like to hear themselves talk, and that have no clue about what it is like to be ripped off and thereafter struggle with student loan soul and life destroying debt.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-39646990118635619722012-06-11T16:42:36.775-07:002012-06-11T16:42:36.775-07:00And I know more than I ever wanted to about shit -...And I know more than I ever wanted to about shit - had a case about sewage treatment technology a few years back - and garbage - incinerator/pyrolitic digestion....<br /><br />MacKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-61064078859581521142012-06-11T16:34:15.073-07:002012-06-11T16:34:15.073-07:00Well cook more than chef - in a diner
MacKWell cook more than chef - in a diner<br /><br />MacKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-19043394756520432062012-06-11T16:33:30.249-07:002012-06-11T16:33:30.249-07:00@4:04
I wish I did know more. Remember I am an i...@4:04<br /><br />I wish I did know more. Remember I am an international practitioner so I have to know about a lot of legal systems - plus I am admitted in several countries. I have direct knowledge of European, US and Asian systems - but don't ask me about say family law in any of them since my knowledge would be superficial, ditto landlord tenant, criminal outside the US (and even here my knowledge is limited) - technology, international commercial and international litigation is most of what I do, with a side of competition/antitrust (they work together, seriously). Many of the lawyers I work with regularly could discuss what I just did - but there are areas where you would be better off asking anyone but me.<br /><br />Oh I also worked as a chef, carpenter/cabinetmaker and boatbuilder. My undergrad is science. Odd credentials.<br /><br /><br />MackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-40342130541277921062012-06-11T16:24:46.788-07:002012-06-11T16:24:46.788-07:00"You can fool some of the people all of the t..."You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time."<br /><br />And that sentiment pretty much sums up the interconnected law school as well as the student loan scams, which have gone on for too long now, and just might be coming to an end.<br /><br />But maybe that is wishful thinking.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-77360048460168920452012-06-11T16:17:10.952-07:002012-06-11T16:17:10.952-07:00I think recent comments attacking this as research...I think recent comments attacking this as research data fraud is something to act seriously upon. <br /><br />Those with connections in say basic science research programs should know people with lots of info and connections on the consequences to universities and professors ("Principal Investigators") who use bogus/misleading data. <br /><br />I don't have more practical advice on this now, but those of you that do - please speak up, and reach out. <br /><br />Also, can any of us sponsor a white paper on the problem? Encourage Ph.D. theses on our problem and the data discrepancies? <br /><br />We cannot DO what we need to until we have the DATA. And we as lawyers aren't the experts in that!<br /><br />ChicagoDePaulLawyerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-33569980963548574652012-06-11T16:04:39.381-07:002012-06-11T16:04:39.381-07:00MacK knows everything!MacK knows everything!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com