tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post2609616722142087945..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: When law school hurtsLawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-63740395273530943012013-02-26T19:25:16.146-08:002013-02-26T19:25:16.146-08:00Moreover it helps in promoting the services of
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Thanks DJM.8:02PM here.<br /><br />Thanks DJM.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-3624046315662066302012-08-02T16:39:29.123-07:002012-08-02T16:39:29.123-07:00For people wondering about how taking a leave will...For people wondering about how taking a leave will affect their career, there is at least one thread on TLS where V15 interviewers and others post. You can ask there.<br /><br />If you don't want to do that, just start a thread and see what people say.<br /><br />But, at the end of the day, you don't have a career when you don't have your mental or physical health. If you need a leave you should take it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-57450650495999778642012-08-02T13:35:32.548-07:002012-08-02T13:35:32.548-07:008:06,
I've banked a shit ton of it so far.8:06,<br />I've banked a shit ton of it so far.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-74688226065180952312012-08-02T10:52:22.842-07:002012-08-02T10:52:22.842-07:00Look, the point is that if you are the student for...Look, the point is that if you are the student for whom DJM's post is resonating, you never should have gone to law school in the first place. Why the hell should you worry about whether stress leave is going to kill your BigLaw interview? You don't belong in BigLaw. You will hate it, and it will grind you up. The loans from 1L are a sunk cost. Move on and deal with them.<br /><br />Cooley and Touro and their ilk aren't going to go quietly in the night. The ABA isn't going to close schools fast enough. Even the bottom 50% of the class at the top 20 schools is beyond redemption. It is up to individual law students to wake up and realize that they've been scammed hard and only they have the power to minimize the loss.<br /><br />I was lower half at a top 20 school. I turned down the mid-sized firm that picked me up through OCI. I've worked as a prosecutor and as an in-house counsel. I've made decent money. But with all that, if I could go back in a time machine and do it over, I'd of dropped out after 1L with absolutely no regrets. The law is no longer a profession, it is a God-forsaken wasteland.<br /><br />MausAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-17007112216609410342012-08-02T10:31:16.224-07:002012-08-02T10:31:16.224-07:00"So, you are promoting taking a leave of abse..."So, you are promoting taking a leave of absence due to stress but then telling employers it was because of something other than stress AND not mentioning it was because of stress?"<br /><br />This was not addressed to me, but I'll answer it. Yes. Your mental health is none of an interviewer's business, unless perhaps you're applying to be an astronaut. You should go to an interview with prepared explanations for any big gaps in your resume. Emphasize the good truth and omit the bad (as long as the bad is not something one can find with a google search).<br /><br />If a law student were in my office for an interview and actually told me that he took a leave of absense because he couldn't handle the stress, I would break out of interview mode and gently advise him to come up with a better answer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-8275951026014699282012-08-02T10:28:03.109-07:002012-08-02T10:28:03.109-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.big jonnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15557363776949422612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-74762122656905967852012-08-02T09:50:34.588-07:002012-08-02T09:50:34.588-07:00Oops, that was 7:29, not 7:27.Oops, that was 7:29, not 7:27.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-62248885847181983912012-08-02T09:48:47.999-07:002012-08-02T09:48:47.999-07:00@ 7:27 - I agree completely. Today's "...@ 7:27 - I agree completely. Today's "I'm first, wheeee" validates the complete worthlessness of Fordam. Do these clowns high five at the clerk's office when they file a motion or do the Happy Snoopy Dance at a closing? <br /><br />Others who exhibit this juvenile behavior, please post your law school to help make the case re the jerk institution that's "training" you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-88332999900322922362012-08-02T08:06:04.876-07:002012-08-02T08:06:04.876-07:00Crux,
That is likely the case, but I think it mis...Crux,<br /><br />That is likely the case, but I think it misses the point. <br /><br />If you gross $900K in five years, but a quarter of that goes to state and local taxes, getting you down to 675K, and you are going to pay back your student loans so that you aren't unemployed with a mountain of debt, all of the sudden you're at $475K.<br /><br />Now, on that $475K spread over the five years of living expenses, even a few of the little luxuries of "looking the part" whether that's clothes, watches, food, eating out, dating, etc. <br /><br />How much of that do you really have banked at the end of that time period? And as you've been working very long hours, you don't always have much in the way of wonderful life experiences to show for it. <br /><br />I'm just wondering what the 30 year old phased out big law associate thinks when he or she looks back at the last decade of their life? <br /><br />Would they go to law school again? I'm sure some would. Maybe most. <br /><br />But I think a not-insignificant percentage even of these super achievers probably feel like law school was a waste and they'd do something differently if they could go back and change it all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-84738360051695114862012-08-02T07:55:03.999-07:002012-08-02T07:55:03.999-07:00I would think that if one we working in Manhattan,...I would think that if one we working in Manhattan, and living nearby, you wouldn't want/need a car at all?Crux of lawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06572986619859564280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-15296168888172098832012-08-02T07:44:10.949-07:002012-08-02T07:44:10.949-07:007:27,
Very few associates wear suits in Biglaw and...7:27,<br />Very few associates wear suits in Biglaw and the partners could give less of a shit if you buy your clothes at Men's Wearhouse or Saks. No one makes you buy an expensive car either nor do they give a shit if you drive a Mercedes or a Honda Accord so long as it's not a rustbucket.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-257386467209764792012-08-02T07:27:15.104-07:002012-08-02T07:27:15.104-07:00I'd like to see a post on the "even when ...I'd like to see a post on the "even when you win, you lose" aspect that most are pointing out about big firm life. <br /><br />For instance, you spend four years in undergrad and three more in law school accruing massive amounts of debt. <br /><br />A "successful" outcome is if you get a big firm job, which pays six figures in salary and will generally end for the vast majority of associates somewhere between two and seven years. <br /><br />Yes, $160,000 is a lot of money, and the raises are good while they last. But how much money can one expect to make (gross) in a five year career at a Biglaw shop? 800 grand? 900 grand? <br /><br />After you've:<br /><br />1. Lopped a huge chunk off in taxes<br /><br />2. Paid what we can assume is typically higher rent/mortgage payments (since to be making $160K, you're working in a big city with higher cost of living).<br /><br />3. Dressed the part, which means high end suits, high end shoes, constant dry cleaning bills, etc. <br /><br />4. Those that buy a car likely buy an expensive one that will likely be heavily depreciated by the end of the five year period. <br /><br />5. Paid back somewhere between $150,000 to a quarter million dollars in student loans. <br /><br />At the end, what is left for this 30 year old individual who was K-JD. How much money did they bank? What is the big payoff for them after three stressful years of law school and five more year of even more stressful biglaw practice? <br /><br />Is the payoff worth it even for the "winners?"<br /><br />As a graduate of a quasi-elite law school about a decade out, the classmates of mine who seem to have "won" were those who missed the brass ring and landed in mid-sized law firms in mid-sized cities. Still with the firm, having made partner. Yes, it isn't New York City, but it's employment and they live in affordable cities.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-19278206422842341042012-08-02T07:14:03.943-07:002012-08-02T07:14:03.943-07:00One thing I noticed in law school was that many of...One thing I noticed in law school was that many of the students who were struggling (academically or emotionally) tended to feel pressured by their families to obtain a JD. Some of these kids would not have been in law school at all but for the prodding of their parents. I imagine it's even worse for this type of student today, given the terrible job market and draconian debt regime he/she is facing. Combined with the fact that many clueless non-lawyers simply cannot grasp that a JD is neither prestigious nor a guarantee of six-figure annual earnings. <br /><br />P.S. I don't intend this as a boomer bashing post. :)~https://www.blogger.com/profile/07775795950513629761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-59533678968942553142012-08-02T06:56:10.435-07:002012-08-02T06:56:10.435-07:00commentators!commentators!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-77410411294481368102012-08-02T06:18:54.976-07:002012-08-02T06:18:54.976-07:00Perhaps DJM is slyly pushing the ultimate sorting ...Perhaps DJM is slyly pushing the ultimate sorting mechanism that will solve everything AND keep law prof's flush with cash!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-72390836991303785612012-08-02T06:01:01.279-07:002012-08-02T06:01:01.279-07:00Law schools graduate about twice as many students ...Law schools graduate about twice as many students are there are law jobs.<br /><br />By third year, nearly half of law students will suffer from major depression.<br /><br />If people who get crushed by law school leave, the numbers would start to work.BL1Yhttp://www.constitutionaldaily.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-10616580853901250582012-08-02T05:46:10.013-07:002012-08-02T05:46:10.013-07:00"You should withdraw ONLY IF you get bad grad..."You should withdraw ONLY IF you get bad grades. Anything else, grow some balls."<br /><br /><br />So what are bad grades? And does the tier of the school matter?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-83705232585080103162012-08-02T05:09:14.668-07:002012-08-02T05:09:14.668-07:00Here's another fantastic reason to leave.
You...Here's another fantastic reason to leave.<br /><br />You look at your school's full-time, JD-required employment measure, as well as possibly the breakdown of the types of jobs that measure represents <a href="http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org/" rel="nofollow">here</a>. If you even wonder whether your grades will make you eligible for full-time, JD-required employment, you should quit.<br /><br />Some professor over at Paul Caron's blog tried to tell me that accumulating $100,000 in debt to make only $2,000 to $8,000 more than one could have with a BA/BS was still a good deal, because of IBR (and of course the unquantifiable richness that a JD brings to one's life). I guess being the unwitting accomplice to fucking the taxpayer for an extra $2,000 to $8,000 a year was okay in that guy's mind, but I promise you - no one is inherently better off (or better than you) just for having gone to law school.Morse Code for Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15533833808776688455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-11274695770340308422012-08-02T04:58:14.698-07:002012-08-02T04:58:14.698-07:00@7:09 a.m.:
"You should withdraw ONLY IF you...@7:09 a.m.:<br /><br />"You should withdraw ONLY IF you get bad grades. Anything else, grow some balls."<br /><br />I agree totally. That is, if by "bad grades" you mean " grades below the 90th percentile at most schools," and by "balls" you mean "another two years of debt at 7.5% that isn't dischargeable in bankruptcy."<br /><br />Also, by "I agree totally," I meant "you're a gigantic asshole."Morse Code for Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15533833808776688455noreply@blogger.com