tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post2475249898347281825..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: Independence DayLawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger114125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-62832200169990055562013-02-27T11:23:48.829-08:002013-02-27T11:23:48.829-08:00Hey would you mind letting me know which hosting c...Hey would you mind letting me know which hosting company you're working with? I've loaded your blog in 3 different internet browsers and I must say this blog loads a lot quicker then most.<br />Can you recommend a good internet hosting provider at <br />a honest price? Thank you, I appreciate it!<br /><br />Feel free to surf to my web blog :: <a href="http://www.uniquesummerfashion.info/profile/FlorianBe" rel="nofollow">list of low carb foods</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-26318048845760924642012-07-27T00:19:09.949-07:002012-07-27T00:19:09.949-07:00I tried in vain for 2 days to convince a recent co...I tried in vain for 2 days to convince a recent college grad not to attend law school, despite all the data I showed her on sites like this and the NY times articles and the facebook page Don't Go to Law School, she is still going...iYogihttp://scamsafety.blogspot.in/2011/12/scammers-now-devising-iyogi-scam.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-88450603335631474232012-07-06T14:21:37.838-07:002012-07-06T14:21:37.838-07:00"In particular, judicial decisions abotu righ..."In particular, judicial decisions abotu rights tend to be conceived as all-or-nothing matters. the very concept of a right seems to call for integral satisfaction, if it's a right at all; and if not, then nothing... The penchant to settle things judicially, further polarized by rival special-interest campaigns, effectively cuts down the possibilities of compromise. We might also argue that it makes certain issues harder to address, those that require a wide democratic consensus around measures that will also involve some sacrifice and difficulty. Perhaps this is part of the continuing American problem of coming to terms with their declining economic situation through some sort of intelligent industrial policy."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-80771740598347798682012-07-06T04:19:08.856-07:002012-07-06T04:19:08.856-07:00"Women lose value in the profession for each ...<b>"Women lose value in the profession for each year they age. By age 60, the vast majority of women will not be able to get and hold a legal job."</b><br /><br />This. In-house, older women can survive. In private practice if they're not shoved out when they start a family, they get cut once their looks start to fade. People don't require that their accountants, HR consultants etc. be attractive, but at least some have weird expectations when it comes to legal advice.Guy who usually posts under a different handlehttp://www.nicetryasshole.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-89109180331277005142012-07-05T20:05:34.555-07:002012-07-05T20:05:34.555-07:00I honestly don't think you need to change much...I honestly don't think you need to change much of anything - please just keep going with your gut instincts as you appear to be doing. I think the benefits that come from your approach are in fact very solution-focused: that's because your writing produces healthy rage, which I think is absolutely essential at this point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-36864359751605837962012-07-05T09:38:28.074-07:002012-07-05T09:38:28.074-07:00I think that it would be very helpful to have a &q...I think that it would be very helpful to have a "Best Of" section for the site, with a list of the most important three or four posts that LawProf has written. The "There are no jobs" one comes to mind for example.<br /><br />Otherwise, bravo. This site is great.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-49198435599425228102012-07-05T09:05:45.311-07:002012-07-05T09:05:45.311-07:00Invite Jack Marshall of ethicsalarms to guest blog...Invite Jack Marshall of ethicsalarms to guest blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-40629357730194363652012-07-05T07:39:22.065-07:002012-07-05T07:39:22.065-07:00When I graduated from law school in 2002 I had abo...When I graduated from law school in 2002 I had about 25K in student loans. Consolidated and I locked in an interest rate just over 2%. These 7-8% interest rates on student loans make no sense whatsoever. The borrower cannot bankrupt and the government can just go to the taxpayers in the event of default. Where is the risk that justifies these rates??BamBamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-44419820098457202342012-07-05T07:33:34.647-07:002012-07-05T07:33:34.647-07:00At first glance, reducing law faculty salaries and...At first glance, reducing law faculty salaries and increasing workloads sounds extreme, but in reality it's just saying law faculty should be compensated like our peers in other disciplines across campus and also to have similar workloads. That's not really asking much. <br /><br />I do think more attention needs to be paid to size and bloated compensation of administration, not only in law schools, but across campus. I know for a fact at one point, our Dean made more than the university president. That's just plain nuts! <br /><br />Keep up the good work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-10360413283195914372012-07-05T07:15:09.591-07:002012-07-05T07:15:09.591-07:00I wouldn't mind a piece on how student loan te...I wouldn't mind a piece on how student loan terms have steadily gotten worse for students over the last 20 years. I don't know the exact timeline, but as I understand it:<br />1. All loans (federal, private, etc.) were dischargable in bk after 7 years of repayment.<br />2. Then, only private loans were dischargable in bk.<br />3. BAPCPA makes all student loans non-dischargable in bk.<br />4. Also, as I understand it, Dept of Ed. used to offer consolidation loans at a low, fixed rate, regardless of the current interest rate. At some point in the last 5 years (2007 or 2008?) that was changed to offer considation loans with rates based off of the weighted average of the loans.<br /><br />I am sure there are others, but when loans 20 years ago are compared with the loans today, not only are the amounts today drastically greater but the terms drastically more unfavorable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-9579286967991863292012-07-05T06:28:44.684-07:002012-07-05T06:28:44.684-07:00It should be revealed that enrolling in law school...It should be revealed that enrolling in law school is like moving to Hollywood trying to become a movie star. Huge odds against you know matter how good looking and talented you are. A dime a dozen.<br /><br />As to diminishing odds: my former boss was a capital partner at a large old firm making 100k in 1984. But most years from 2000 on he seemes lucky to make more than $50k. Top schools, too. What does that tell us? Its time for real academic and governmental research into what the REAL long term outcomes have been so a re-pricing of the law school enrollment market can be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-49402310424797788122012-07-05T03:37:25.959-07:002012-07-05T03:37:25.959-07:00People leave the legal system because they are fir...People leave the legal system because they are fired for the most part. Very few leave voluntarily. The odds of working long term as a lawyer even from CNN are terrible. Look at the alumni directories. If a lawyer is a solo or counsel to a firm you have never heard of, odds are that laywer is highly underemployed. The private sector is brutal to older women lawyers. Women lose value in the profession for each year they age. By age 60, the vast majority of women will not be able to get and hold a legal job. For private sector employers, older women are the lowest form of life. They are not hired, are treated like garbage and have no legal rights but to face unemployment in the legal sector. If you are female and want to face an 85% chance of unemployment by age 60 if you did not sign up for government work, go to CNN.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-12353156269992521682012-07-04T21:43:52.220-07:002012-07-04T21:43:52.220-07:00So do we really want to return to a system in whic...<i>So do we really want to return to a system in which only rich, privileged (and largely white) kids become lawyers? Because that's what you are going to get if the market kills off the bottom half of the law schools, the government cuts back on student loan availability, and the Court kills affirmative action.</i><br /><br />As another poster said, it's already this way.<br />Excluding African-Americans, other racial minorities are not wanted by law firms or in house at corporations. They are treated as subservient, second-class citizens and usually given administrative, document review type work. <br /><br />ALL prospective students (no matter what color they are) need to be warned about the ROI on a law degree, as well as it's who you know that matters when it comes to finding a job, not what you know. Stop giving poor and middle-class kids hope when there is none. The legal system will always favor the privileged and connected, and the elite rarely let anyone else into their inside circle.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-39948654139282783222012-07-04T21:38:57.893-07:002012-07-04T21:38:57.893-07:00Yes, it will be important to have data. That's...Yes, it will be important to have data. That's my only point. And then when people make the decision they will be informed. One of the best parts of what has happened over the past couple of years is that people are in the position to think hard about whether they want to go to law school. That should have been happening all along. But the information is there now. I have talked to a number of undergraduates about this, and they are well aware of the problems. I suspect that even after all the information is assimilated and presented, many people will still want to go to law school. That is not going to stop.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-6738839631494979722012-07-04T21:23:26.700-07:002012-07-04T21:23:26.700-07:00I also know lots of people employed as lawyers. I...I also know lots of people employed as lawyers. I am one of those. I also know former lawyers who are employed in jobs that perhaps they got because of their time in law. I also know people who are struggling in other professions. It is true that the brutal fact is that the older anyone gets, the harder it is to compete, unless one has a unique skill or talent-- and is lucky. Yes, I am glad that you know that law is an unstable profession. It has also always been a profession that people leave...voluntarily and involuntarily...mostly involuntarily. However, I cannot think of another profession where one invests so much for so long for such long odds and such unstable, uncertain, and short job prospects. If someone insists on such an investment, then go ahead. My point is, the truth needs to be demonstrated with data. I know that I would not have bought a lawyering degree on credit had I known the truth that the data, once assimilated, will reveal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-12257537195841669242012-07-04T21:22:58.712-07:002012-07-04T21:22:58.712-07:00Please, please, please educate your readings in a ...Please, please, please educate your readings in a little more detail as to what is happening in the marketplace for a law degree. I.e. let's talk about collusion between these entities and the government. Nothing, absolutely nothing, will really change unless we can expose what is going on and make it common knowledge. All the bogus partisan favored labels that do not reflect reality much less moral culpability will stand unless we can really talk about why there is no price competition.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-87409955408236087802012-07-04T21:10:24.461-07:002012-07-04T21:10:24.461-07:00I don't dispute what you know. But what you kn...I don't dispute what you know. But what you know is anecdotal. You may be right, but your experiences are not enough to prove that the figures offered are wrong. I know lots of people employed as lawyers, former lawyers who are employed in jobs they got because of their time in law, former lawyer in jobs they got probably in spite of their time in law. I also know people who are struggling, as I know architects and folks in other professions who are struggling. The brutal fact is that the older anyone gets, the harder it is to compete, unless one has a unique skill or talent-- and is lucky. <br /> Yes, law is an unstable profession. It has also always been a profession that people leave. Some percentage of those 40 percent who aren't working as lawyers bailed because they wanted out. <br />I did not go to law school to practice law forever. I expected to do it a few years, certainly more than two or three. But I do understand what you are saying. Most people who go to law school want to practice, or want to make money practicing. Probably more who want to make money practicing because they do not really know what lawyers do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-28112892469094930102012-07-04T20:53:13.422-07:002012-07-04T20:53:13.422-07:00@8:19
I know this because I have been in this busi...@8:19<br />I know this because I have been in this business for 20 years, and I know what has happened to my colleagues, all former or current biglaw, NLJ250, lawyers. I know this because I know people, and I talk to people. I know that law is a very insecure and unstable business. I also know the BLS data that demonstrates only 60% of JD holders are working in any capacity as lawyers. I also know that the two law review editors that I interacted with in law school are no longer working as lawyers. I also know that no one in their right mind would spend 3 years and tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy a degree that they voluntarily wouldn't use after a few years. I know that there are too many, way too many, lawyers and people cannot get and keep jobs as lawyers. I know scores, T14 graduates included, who cannot find a job as a lawyer currently.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-47541208452619412232012-07-04T20:33:03.764-07:002012-07-04T20:33:03.764-07:00Push back at the Cooley race card play. Saddling 2...Push back at the Cooley race card play. Saddling 200+ college educated blacks with a six figure education debt when 10 or less will actually find stable jobs as attorneys. Other schools that teach no marketable job skills but reduce minorities to debt peonage play this same "we are vital to educating minorities" card too, including the scam for-profit trade schools.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-28383838906261160422012-07-04T20:19:04.110-07:002012-07-04T20:19:04.110-07:00How do you know this?How do you know this?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-1028352466801611142012-07-04T20:12:44.475-07:002012-07-04T20:12:44.475-07:007:52 here again.
It is most important to demonstra...7:52 here again.<br />It is most important to demonstrate that the statistics that cite a 1.9% unemployment rate for attorneys and a median income of c. 120K are false...largely based upon self reporting. Both statistics are so far from the truth as to be comical...no more true than law school reported employment statistics have historically been.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-15798511353860049752012-07-04T20:06:53.537-07:002012-07-04T20:06:53.537-07:00If you think your law school lied to you about emp...If you think your law school lied to you about employment, write down your experience in great detail, find classmates who will support your story, and take it to your nearest class action law firm. <br /><br />Being printouts of recruitment emails and go to archive.org and print out the placement stats on the archived versions of the school's website as it appeared when you were a 0L.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-79065297229636713382012-07-04T20:05:50.325-07:002012-07-04T20:05:50.325-07:00The older you get in this profession, the more the...The older you get in this profession, the more the deck is stacked against you. Old today is much like being a minority was in the past. You can look young, be physically fit, come from top schools, work like a dog. But if you are old, your chances of holding a good legal job are quite simply very poor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-37192444458594045522012-07-04T19:59:17.465-07:002012-07-04T19:59:17.465-07:00Keep up what you're doing.
Support the class...Keep up what you're doing. <br /><br />Support the class actions, which have a realistic chance of shutting the lying diploma mills ripping off their students and the government.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-43742407885589487762012-07-04T19:52:40.013-07:002012-07-04T19:52:40.013-07:00@8:53, 9:36, 11:28, 1:21 and 3:15
Yes, it is most ...@8:53, 9:36, 11:28, 1:21 and 3:15<br />Yes, it is most important to demonstrate with data what has happened to lawyers 2, 5, 10, 20, 30 years after graduation. That data will include those who were successful and were working at biglaw or prestigious clerkships at the 9 month post graduation time point. The data I know without a doubt will demonstrate that an ever decreasing percentage are doing well in each succeeding year. I know some of these people. I have worked with them. I have followed them for 20 years. The employment situation of my colleagues has further deteriorated significantly over the last 2 years, even over the last year. We finally must demonstrate with facts that law is an unstable business, each law job is most unstable, and keeping any law job, even managing partner, is like walking a tightrope. No one in their right mind would go to law school knowing the truths about long term employment prospects that so many of us know now...and have unfortunately learned the hard way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com