tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post2451255252491096281..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: How soon is now?LawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger198125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-55507805542970581072012-12-21T12:42:42.985-08:002012-12-21T12:42:42.985-08:00There is no denying the fact that a pre GED test i...There is no denying the fact that a pre GED test is absolutely necessary no matter how positive you are that you can do a great job in the actual examination. This can give you the peace of mind that you need in knowing that you prepared well for the exam. Other than this, taking a pre-test can help give you an idea on what are some of the questions to be covered in the test so you will know what topics to focus on.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.gedbooks.org/ensure-yourself-success-by-using-printable-ged-practice-tests/" rel="nofollow">printable ged practice test free</a><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06174157687212464551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-47618437761018395612012-07-16T08:02:36.959-07:002012-07-16T08:02:36.959-07:009:45 pm said, "P.S. I'm in the 33% margin...9:45 pm said, "P.S. I'm in the 33% marginal tax bracket. And you??"<br /><br />Doesn't matter what bracket I'm in. I mean, yes, a significant amount of my income is in the top bracket. <br /><br />But that doesn't matter really because I pay a bunch of AMT. PITA to have to run the taxes the "regular way", and have it say I overpaid according to that scheme, then have to run the AMT calc and have it say that I'm still $4k short...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-72527574153991246982012-07-16T05:33:15.050-07:002012-07-16T05:33:15.050-07:00I read about half of these comments before I figur...I read about half of these comments before I figured out that we're talking about BigLaw salaries, the bonuses being shit, the difficulty of putting money aside and, for some reason, "enlisting" in JAG.<br /><br />I have to think that all of those topics are completely irrelevant to the majority of law students at this point. Really? It's hard to SAVE money. Saving money to me is getting the wrong change at the grocery store.<br /><br />You're all very valuable human beings. Carry on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-50913155879833921422012-07-16T05:20:40.976-07:002012-07-16T05:20:40.976-07:00leave it to a boomer to make the contemporary law ...leave it to a boomer to make the contemporary law school scam all about his/her generation.<br /><br />a boomer's ability to engineer self-involvement in any situation is truly astounding.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-13444496114609791062012-07-15T22:18:24.060-07:002012-07-15T22:18:24.060-07:008:32,
Businessweek published a chart of MBA gradu...8:32,<br /><br />Businessweek published a chart of MBA graduate pay after 20 years based on PayScale data so it's probably already possible to figure out the data you seek. <br /><br />You should offer some legal publications your suggestion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-4828151336127102642012-07-15T20:32:15.251-07:002012-07-15T20:32:15.251-07:00@ 6:32 "Even for top schools and top grads th...@ 6:32 "Even for top schools and top grads the unemployment/ underemployment/ low compensation problem for lawyers is much worse than the statistics 9 months out of law school show. The big firm jobs last for the most part for a few years. There are limited numbers of high paying jobs for alums of those big firms to go to, and surely not enough $160,000+ permanent full time jobs by any stretch for the vast majority of lawyers who train in big firms. By the time you hit 30 years out of law school (age 56 or so) for the top 20 law schools, the salary statistics look downright catastrophic. The medians are going to be lower that those of the 9 month group from the same school. We really need those numbers collected and published. It is a mistake to go to CLS for example if you can have 20 years in a good job and after that you are relegated to temp work, solo practice or eat what you kill. The glamorous high paying jobs that are available to younger grads of those schools certainly disappear in pretty big numbers for the older grads because the $160,000 firms are age pyramids. This blog needs to publicize those numbers for experienced grads of top law schools. It is a very uncertain future for a large percentage of people who go to top law schools, even the top 6...Now, with the huge glut of lawyers, employment opportunities really poor in the profession and up or out policies creating a fairly large group of unemployed top law school grads, people who can go to the top law schools need to know what their chances are to make a good living."<br /><br />YOU ARE SO RIGHT. I take credit for being one of the early posters on this blog to raise this issue several months ago. Sure, the winners of the biglaw lottery are in a better position and can at least hopefully pay off their student loans, but LAW IS NOT A STABLE BUSINESS, and NOBODY CAN BE SURE THAT THEY CAN MAKE A GOOD LIVING LONG TERM AS A LAWYER. Each law job is insecure, and it is getting worse. I know scores of once successful biglaw lawyers who are either unemployed entirely, have their own law firm out of their house, are alleged consultants, or are working in an eat what you kill firm where there isn't much killing. THE OVERSUPPLY OF LAWYERS IS EXTREME.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-8847939841298092342012-07-15T19:13:33.156-07:002012-07-15T19:13:33.156-07:00You will love this one:
http://www.nypdrecruit.co...You will love this one:<br /><br />http://www.nypdrecruit.com/benefits-salary/overview<br /><br />Sure beats going to LS.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-10073210051556136822012-07-15T17:11:23.292-07:002012-07-15T17:11:23.292-07:00What outcome in the law, with perhaps the exceptio...What outcome in the law, with perhaps the exception of becoming a partner at a decent firm and/or becoming a high powered judge, is better than this:<br /><br /> http://www.jdunderground.com/all/thread.php?threadId=30120<br /><br />Before someone asks how hard it is to become a captain, not nearly as hard as getting into a solid LS or having the creds for BL. Also the outcome is about the same for the regular beat cops.<br /><br />This is without the debt and with half the stress.<br /><br />This is why I say becoming a STEM professional in light of outsourcing, a lawyer in light of the oversaturation, or a doctor in light of OBAMACARE is suicide for the lower classes.<br /><br />Get rewarded for voting and being medicore, don't get punished for trying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-63483083357495476662012-07-15T16:16:40.101-07:002012-07-15T16:16:40.101-07:00@ 1:16:
"The farther you get from the Northe...@ 1:16:<br /><br />"The farther you get from the Northeast, the less important going to a private out of state school gets, so maybe in Arizona or New Mexico, the the state school is as good a choice as a top private college in the Northeast, if you graduate with honors."<br /><br />Um. . . don't know about Arizona, but that's absolutely not true about New Mexico.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-11018830754118855282012-07-15T16:14:18.275-07:002012-07-15T16:14:18.275-07:00JD Painterguy:
"I think you need to stop tak...JD Painterguy:<br /><br />"I think you need to stop taking comments as well, or at least stop taking comments for a little while at least so as to let your message, and DJM's message get out.<br /><br />"Too many cooks spoil the soup."<br /><br />Physician, heal thyself. I love this blog--except for your inane ramblings in the comments. I have quite a bit of sympathy for you as a human being, but wish you had money for actual therapy instead of having to resort to whatever therapeutic benefit you get from repeatedly trying to hijack attention to yourself on the comment threads.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-52040842193056619242012-07-15T14:49:02.714-07:002012-07-15T14:49:02.714-07:00There's nothing confusing about it. You get y...There's nothing confusing about it. You get your raise in your 4th year.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-82580742318493818872012-07-15T14:44:25.884-07:002012-07-15T14:44:25.884-07:00Maybe the difference is that the salary goes up Ja...Maybe the difference is that the salary goes up January 1 or later, so that if you are class of 2010, your salary is 160 for at least a year and a few months, then 170 for a year starting in 2012 and then 190 for a year starting in 2013. In 2014, you go up to 210 and you are starting your 5th year since there will be a new first year class before that salary goes up once again. When my firm sent out memos on this, they referred to "class of" so people were not confused.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-12293177743088689362012-07-15T14:39:14.457-07:002012-07-15T14:39:14.457-07:00The issue consistently raised by the person in the...The issue consistently raised by the person in the comments section about long term outcomes does not compare to the issue tackled by the scambloggers. As the dating/mating troll notes, a person working in BL for a long time should have the good sense to save up some money.<br /><br />Having said that, said long term issue really does magnify the nature of the scam. When a unionized teacher/cop/plumber winds up making more money, under far less stressful conditions, than not just the losers of the LS game, but alot of the winners as well, LS should be avoided under all circumstances (unless your parents are rich and will subsidize a practice for you, or otherwise hook you up, and/or you are in a gambling mood and you are going to HYS ).<br /><br />We are in a global economy. Only those who pay the politicians and those who vote for them as certain key blocks in key areas (municipal blue collar folk and some teachers) will be spared from the slaughter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-88392840539575806422012-07-15T14:34:16.633-07:002012-07-15T14:34:16.633-07:00@2:12-- I don't understand how going to a top ...@2:12-- I don't understand how going to a top law school will guarantee a certain level of income 20 years after someone has graduated. And your alumni functions and mine are different. The people who show up are not the ones in very low salary jobs, unless they are legal aid/public interest/government lawyer types who opted for that life right off the bat. It was not everyone's dream to be a partner in a big law firm.I know there are classmates who are struggling, but in every profession there are those who do better than others. Going to a top law school or "top" anything is not a ticket.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-11529127043719391042012-07-15T14:22:43.013-07:002012-07-15T14:22:43.013-07:0012:53,
No, 210K is 4th year.
http://en.wikipedia...12:53,<br />No, 210K is 4th year. <br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_firm<br /><br />Also google any abovethelaw thread on law firm salaries. <br /><br />No one said anything about people beyond 7 years. After 7 years they toss you if they have not already done so. <br /><br />And no, the bullshit you are spreading is not in any way comparable to the issue the scamblogs are confronting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-8271810075233071122012-07-15T14:12:23.345-07:002012-07-15T14:12:23.345-07:00What is shocking is how little these people are li...What is shocking is how little these people are likely to make. You do not expect that with a top law school degree you will not be able to make six figures. I really believe that is the case for most of the people I am talking about. I personally never thought about what I was going to do long-term, but it surely did not encompass working in the private sector for what is a very low salary in a very insecure job. I think that is the status of many of my female and minority classmates and surely of the highly credentialed colleagues I ran into at the alumni function. The real problem is that the top law schools give people an expectation that they can earn $160,000 a year. That expectation is not the reality for many experienced lawyers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-83176954922695215372012-07-15T13:44:43.579-07:002012-07-15T13:44:43.579-07:00It's shocking because of the unrealistic expec...It's shocking because of the unrealistic expectations you brought to the table. No one can defend the low percentage of women partners in firms or black partners. There are more of both than their used to be. As for women, I have several classmates who left firms once they had kids.That was not the profession's fault. I am not criticizing the women, because I bailed in anticipation of that myself, leaving for less pressured job. A couple of those female classmates have returned to the work force now as lawyers at not for profits. And there are classmates who have their own small firms. They are not living hand to mouth. But anyone who is in business has to work hard to make it work. There are a good number of women partners in my class and a handful of black partners. DC is better on that score than NYC. I still do not get why anyone would think that the majority of his/her class would end up as partners in big law firms. This was HYS, and we did not think that way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-5027691871031689302012-07-15T12:53:50.412-07:002012-07-15T12:53:50.412-07:00$210,000 is 5th year. Not that many associates ma...$210,000 is 5th year. Not that many associates make it beyond that level in this economy. <br /><br />Many firms will stop advancing people to next salary level, but give long-term associates a long time to find other work. So the associate stays and works but does not keep getting raised to the next class salary level each year. Anyone who thinks these raises are automatic and everyone gets sticker based on their class year and beyond 7 years associates are at the top salary rate is dreaming. In some firms counsel get less money than senior associates. Firms are under pressure to save money. Raises are anything but automatic in these firms.<br /><br />The point of long term outcomes - in my class at a very top law school (I do not want to identify it, but it is at the top part of the T14), less than 5% of women are at a firm of over 10 lawyers, and less than 2% are in house. The comparable figures for minorities are 0 and 0. You can call that bitterness of an old man who was fired (in fact I am working), but it is like saying the scambloggers who did not find legal jobs have something wrong with them. The numbers do not lie. <br /><br />When I went to alumni function at my former biglaw firm, people who had been highly paid experienced lawyers at the firm were in jobs at under 10 firms or solos. It is sort of shocking.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-54424046370716941602012-07-15T12:17:35.313-07:002012-07-15T12:17:35.313-07:0010:05,
Everyone is "on track" for partne...10:05,<br />Everyone is "on track" for partner whatever the fuck that means since no is going to be made partner. "Off track" means fired.<br />The 210K is base and does not include bonuses which have been shit for the past few years anyways. The amount of complete bullshit that people say on this blog is unbelievable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-71596409649218329792012-07-15T12:08:00.336-07:002012-07-15T12:08:00.336-07:00^edit old man/woman
That's what I get for try...^edit old man/woman<br /><br />That's what I get for trying to be gender inclusive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-4269884841988296952012-07-15T12:05:37.713-07:002012-07-15T12:05:37.713-07:00DJM,
Flaws in the survey aside, it paints a much d...DJM,<br />Flaws in the survey aside, it paints a much different picture than old man who lost his/her job and trolls the comment boards.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-7044431533727579512012-07-15T12:02:29.910-07:002012-07-15T12:02:29.910-07:00I think the discussion of getting kicked out of bi...I think the discussion of getting kicked out of big law after say 20 years is very interesting and not off topic for this site. It goes to the expected value of going to law school. That doesn't help recent graduates, but it does help 0Ls who may be reading this.<br /><br />For the HYS kid, my observation (which may not be surprising) is that 10 years out of HYS the vast majority of folks are no longer in big law. Probably most of those folks are earning less than big law would pay. Not many folks appear to be partners. Many of those may be non equity partners.<br /><br />What would it take to retire very comfortably at say 45 (after around 20 years in big law). I'm going to say around 3 mil, assuming a 1 mil house and 2 mil that you can use to draw down say inflation adjusted 100K per year. That isn't really enough to live high end in a big city and send say 2 or 3 kids to private schools (and in a big city, the public alternative may be rather unpalatable) and college.<br /><br />Anyway, the point is that it's basically impossible to reach that kind of savings goal in 20 years of big law, unless you were to become an equity partner. The numbers just don't work after big city taxes/reasonable living expenses. Actually, I've never seen big law lawyers voluntarily "retire" young.<br /><br />In the face of all that, the mythical fireman/cop who can retire after 20-25 years and get 100K+ per year for the rest of his life, sounds pretty good indeed. Your tax dollars hard at work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-39892567748337738542012-07-15T11:55:38.102-07:002012-07-15T11:55:38.102-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-75750500630887831822012-07-15T11:38:39.811-07:002012-07-15T11:38:39.811-07:00Regarding the children in college problem: don'...Regarding the children in college problem: don't have kids. No one put a gun to your junk and told you that you had to start breeding. If you can't afford to give your children a better life than you had, why try? There are other biological impariatives that we supress for the sake of civilized living (e.g., constant sex, physical violence against rivals, not talking in movie theatres).<br /><br />Having children died when I foolishly went to law school for sticker. This is my lot.terry malloynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-52231809864445459802012-07-15T11:16:40.680-07:002012-07-15T11:16:40.680-07:0010:17 It may be competitive in California, but at ...10:17 It may be competitive in California, but at least those who can go into the system and are in the top 8 or 9 public universities have blue chip degrees. You cannot really say that of any public college in the Northeast. I know the City University in NYC has some great honors programs that you need to apply to in high school, but they take a few hundred kids a year. Outside of those, not clear that you can say the public colleges in the Northeast stand out the way the California schools do. <br /><br />Florida has Bright Futures scholarships for residents that help pay public and private tuition. Clearly the Florida schools are a good choice if you are from Florida and planning to stay there.<br /><br />There are other states with great state schools, namely Michigan, Wisconsin, Texas and Virginia. The farther you get from the Northeast, the less important going to a private out of state school gets, so maybe in Arizona or New Mexico, the the state school is as good a choice as a top private college in the Northeast, if you graduate with honors. <br /><br />These are considerations in deciding where you get the best deal for your expensive law degree. It does not help to spend years saving a few hundred thousand dollars, which is all most people can do with a BigLaw start, and then lose a big chunk of it to college.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com