tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post2105634142558973241..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: A disaster of technologyLawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger71125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-30844453309874394002012-02-17T09:32:57.308-08:002012-02-17T09:32:57.308-08:00There is so much about Feynman that is relevant to...There is so much about Feynman that is relevant to legal academics, particularly his intense hatred of unenlightened fakery and pompous rehtoric masquerading as legitimate knowledge. I highly recommend his book, "Curious Character" to any first year law student needing perspective in the middle of their indoctrination.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-63622580488622911712012-02-04T12:20:44.547-08:002012-02-04T12:20:44.547-08:00Anon. 3.11 and Anon. 4.00 am:
I am the student wh...Anon. 3.11 and Anon. 4.00 am:<br /><br />I am the student who put out the email. While the purpose was to redact email ids, I wanted some one to read, reflect and see which law school this was. To my pleasant surprise, both of you did notice the single 'Pitt' reference left in the email. Also, since this was a public email to all 3L students, with no confidentiality attached, I am not sure of what Pitt will loose by it coming or not coming in the web sphere.<br /><br />And yes, while I want the email lines to be in public domain, I deleted the header and footer because of the reason noted by one of you. Deleting this was better than redacting.<br /><br />Finally, while Pitt could put in efforts on working out who did it, I would hope that the they spend more efforts on the CSO's office for getting decent jobs and also bringing in better professors (who have a touch with reality). For God's sake, we attend multiple lectures on video - since one famous professor is out of the country OR at times another adjunct prof sends his Firm chap for a lecture and the chap has no clue or interest in completing the reading discussion for the day. In case any one is still not aware, we do pay a substantial $$ amount for every hour of the law school and are required to physically attend classes to complete the ABA Rules of 80% classroom presence - which interestingly do not apply on professors!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-35682510865418183362012-02-02T04:00:09.808-08:002012-02-02T04:00:09.808-08:003:11
12:27 here - I was being ironic. Since this...3:11<br /><br />12:27 here - I was being ironic. Since this was a broadcast e-mail, without the header and metadata Pitt will never work out who posted it.<br /><br />But since the poster did decide to "redact it" they might want to show the ability to do a competent job ... but then I remember Covington getting into trouble for a redaction that was undoable......Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-63400837518531125562012-02-01T15:11:38.563-08:002012-02-01T15:11:38.563-08:00" you'll get sanctioned "
Sanctione..." you'll get sanctioned "<br /><br />Sanctioned? For what? For posting an honest, true message sent out by Pitt themselves? The only ones who should be sanctioned are Pitt.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-68213847006818847052012-02-01T12:59:45.778-08:002012-02-01T12:59:45.778-08:0012:27 - Pitt Law = XX right -
Gotta get better a...12:27 - Pitt Law = XX right - <br /><br />Gotta get better at redacting or you'll get sanctioned - that is the sort of protective order shit they don't teach at Pitt huh!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-84329293120046585502012-02-01T12:27:03.761-08:002012-02-01T12:27:03.761-08:00This is from my law school (ranked between 60 and ...This is from my law school (ranked between 60 and 60 on US news rankings) - a crappy place to be with professors (like most other law schools) having no clue on what real business needs today.<br /><br />I cannot believe that these people have NO shame... pay up now so that you don't have to pay for next 2 years....<br /><br />"From: "XX@XX.edu - School of Law - 2012 Student List" <br />Subject: Kickoff of Third-Year Giving Program <br />Date: Tue, January 31, 2012 2:47 pm <br />To: XX@XX.edu <br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br /><br />On Wednesday, February 1st the Office of Development and Alumni Affairs will<br />officially kickoff the Third-Year Giving Program. What is the Third-Year Giving<br />Program you ask? It is an opportunity for students to leave their mark at Pitt Law<br />before they graduate. <br /><br />We are asking all third-year students to consider making a pledge of $20.12 (a<br />three-year pledge of $60.36) or more to a designation of their choose. Therefore,<br />students have an opportunity to support their student organizations, Moot Court,<br />LRAP, etc. after their days at XX Law are long gone. If you make a pledge to the<br />Third-Year Giving Campaign, the Development and Alumni Office will not send you a<br />pledge reminder until the spring of 2013! That's right, you don't have to make a<br />payment until NEXT spring. It is not about the amount of money the Class of 2012<br />raises, but the total number of students who participate. Please consider joining<br />your fellow classmates and make your pledge TODAY!<br />Who:<br />XX Law Class of 2012<br />What:<br />The Third-Year Giving Program<br /> Where:<br />The program will officially kickoff on Wednesday, February 1st - the 100 Days till<br />Graduation! <br />Stop down to the Student Lounge and talk with one of your Third-Year Giving<br />Committee members about why and how to make a pledge!<br /> When:<br />The committee will have a table from 11 a.m. - 2 p.m. on February 1st and 2nd in the<br />Student Lounge<br />Why:<br />Make your pledge ($20.12 during the next three years) to any Law School designation<br />of your choice. Now is your time to make a difference.<br /> How:<br />There are a few easy ways that you can make your pledge. First, visit our<br />Third-Year Giving website for more information, to view a list of the committee<br />members and to fill-out an online pledge form. Two, visit the second floor<br />receptionist's desk to get a pledge card. Also at the receptionist's desk will be a<br />"drop-off box". <br />Feel free to drop-off your pledge card at any time. <br />Three, ask a committee member - they will always carry extra pledge cards J! Or finally, call (XX) or email (XX@XX.edu) the Office of Development and Alumni<br />Affairs and ask how you can get involved.<br /><br /> *Incentives and Prizes for Third-Year Giving participants will be announced soon. <br />Get excited and continue to check your email! Please add XX@XX.edu to your Junk Mail Filter's Approved Senders List. <br /> Instructions can be found here. <br />"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-41957422463145981822012-02-01T09:02:57.619-08:002012-02-01T09:02:57.619-08:00@1:46,
I would be interested in knowing how you d...@1:46,<br /><br />I would be interested in knowing how you define 'good reason.' Would you mind defining it for me? <br /><br />And how does the reason one goes to law school affect one's ability to pay off law school tuition? Given that I know people from all backgrounds, first tier, fourth tier, public interest law and BigLaw who are not getting jobs and cannot afford the tuition because it has grown exponentially, I fail to understand how the reason affects one's ability to pay off loans when there are few jobs in all sectors of the law.<br /><br />To me, when tuition is so high that it is a given that people will have to borrow to attend law school and the ability to pay back that borrowed money is put into question, the only factor to consider in attending law school is one's financial circumstances. Bluntly put, can one pony up for the massive tuition and living costs for years on end or have family members/the school/any other source willing to do so, so that one is not dependent upon getting a job upon graduation to pay one's expenses? Unless the answer is a resounding yes, given the current market, law school is an extremely risky proposition and that statement is not based on data from one school (UVA) for one year - it's based on the reality that tuition is extremely expensive and overpriced at every law school and there are few jobs.<br /><br />If that is what you were referring to w/ regards to 'good reason,' then we're on the same page. If you were referring, however, to the rank of the school one gets accepted to as a 'good reason,' I strongly disagree. There are no guarantees in life and a good school name is no longer an indicator of a guarantee of employment. In my world, I watched the friend who graduated from U of M struggle w/ unemployment while two friends who graduated from Cooley ended up w/ jobs exactly one day after passing the bar. Given that no school guarantees its graduates employment, the best indicator isn't the name of the school - it's honest and clear statistics and woe to the individual who ignores them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-80732259463686662492012-02-01T06:06:34.441-08:002012-02-01T06:06:34.441-08:00Campos, this is a great post. It's like you w...Campos, this is a great post. It's like you were born to write this blog. I hope one day you have the opportunity to testify on this subject in front of Congress. I also hope that the congresspeople are sentient and awake during your testimony.OhLatenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-35484668435975981112012-02-01T01:46:47.491-08:002012-02-01T01:46:47.491-08:00@11:25 I was responding to a comment about a year ...@11:25 I was responding to a comment about a year in which UVA had 11% of its graduates in school-sponsored fellowships after nine months (with no information about what happened to those people after the end of the fellowships). My only point, which got transformed by other comments, was that pointing to one tough year is as misleading as pointing to one good year.<br /><br />Of course everyone is affected in a recession/depression,regardless of their reasons for wanting to take up a profession.But I do think the person who wants to go law school for a good reason (which for me has nothing to do with whether they want to do public interest work or not), and has the chance to go to UVA, is in a different position than the person who wants to go and has the chance to go to a much lower ranked school. What school you go to matters and, I think, does change the way I view reasons and motivations. It changes how much energy I think should be expended second- guessing the decision (as we are doing here) to go law school.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-27743048870136695972012-01-31T23:09:14.907-08:002012-01-31T23:09:14.907-08:00@7:13,
11:25 here. I don't think anyone is u...@7:13,<br /><br />11:25 here. I don't think anyone is using one year of info upon which to base a decision. They are looking at overall trends, where expectations of legal employment have declined for several years:<br /><br />http://balkin.blogspot.com/2011/10/poor-employment-market-for-law-grads.html<br /><br /><br />As for those who want to go to law school for good reasons (I was one of them, wanted to do public interest law and serve low-income populations), just because the reason is wholesome, doesn't mean that he or she will have any better luck in the employment arena that those who are disappointed in not getting the big bucks. Lack of jobs affects everyone equally, regardless of one's motivation to attend law school. Given that those who want to go to law school for 'good reasons, (which tends to be defined as non-monetary reasons) still have to eat, drink, and pay law school tuition just like those who attend law school for monetary reasons, they are equally hurt by the lack of jobs. <br /><br />By the way, as someone who attended law school for a non-monetary reason, my motivation for attending law school didn't do anything to help me escape what most recent grads face. The only difference between me and the unemployed BigLaw associate is our motivation for attending law school: the situation we all face - impossibly high tuition that forces one to take out debt with no job prospects - is the same, regardless of whether one attends law school to serve the poor or hit the big bucks in BigLaw. Given that, I don't see how one's motivation and reason for attending law school changes the analysis.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-59066767534204923712012-01-31T19:13:05.938-08:002012-01-31T19:13:05.938-08:00@11:25 this was long ago in the thread, but I offe...@11:25 this was long ago in the thread, but I offered no prediction about what is going to happen with employment. All I said was that using one year to determine whether it made sense to go to UVA made no sense. I distinctly said we are not out of the woods yet economically. And we cannot forget that there are, in fact, some people who want to go to law school for good reasons. Those people should weigh their options carefully.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-7127041738211766432012-01-31T19:02:35.039-08:002012-01-31T19:02:35.039-08:00keep us posted JDPGkeep us posted JDPGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-55161368506989673962012-01-31T18:55:36.791-08:002012-01-31T18:55:36.791-08:00Just made a donation to http://www.lawschooltransp...Just made a donation to http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/<br /><br />Keep up the great work Prof Campos.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-58463194451067798942012-01-31T18:21:13.440-08:002012-01-31T18:21:13.440-08:00Hi Prof. Campos:
My TV news segment with my perso...Hi Prof. Campos:<br /><br />My TV news segment with my personal story etc. keeps getting bumped. <br /><br />Safe to say for now that nothing will appear this week.<br /><br />Will keep everyone posted.<br /><br />Law School Scam Hey? Whooo Hooo! Whooo Hoooo!<br /><br />Good times. Gooood times!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-19647102052771711562012-01-31T17:10:28.287-08:002012-01-31T17:10:28.287-08:00I am in the second generation of my family that ea...I am in the second generation of my family that earned a college degree. That prior generation of winners (/snark) also obtained graduate degrees. I believed in the dream. It appears at times the waves crested with them, leaving that high water mark out of my reach. We'll see how it goes for my children's generation. As a side note, I don't think you can go back more than four generations on either side of my family for native born. They were all immigrants.Crux of lawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06572986619859564280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-17507060919005292572012-01-31T16:47:54.987-08:002012-01-31T16:47:54.987-08:00I misspelled her name. It is Diane Vaughan.I misspelled her name. It is Diane Vaughan.brad304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-30636275154862177252012-01-31T16:47:35.476-08:002012-01-31T16:47:35.476-08:00Brad304: I agree, it's an interesting paralle...Brad304: I agree, it's an interesting parallel and metaphor. For example the employment stats from five years ago (when everything was "good") can be analogized to post-mission inspections that found what should have been highly alarming degradation in critical components, but which were rationalized away instead of interpreted as signs of bigger problems to come.LawProfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-86135418178066606982012-01-31T16:36:40.185-08:002012-01-31T16:36:40.185-08:00On the Challenger disaster, there is an excellent ...On the Challenger disaster, there is an excellent book by Columbia formerly Boston College Sociology Professor Diane Vaughn. The book was nominated for a Pulitzer prize. Vaughn's book published in the mid 90's is an insightful analysis of the organizational culture at NASA. One fascinating part of the book is Vaughn's concept of normalization of deviance. Normalization of deviance means that slight errors or anomalies are rationalized away. This happened at NASA with the problems with the o-rings. <br />Normalization of deviance is also happening in the law school debate.brad304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-71816023850898583122012-01-31T16:16:16.926-08:002012-01-31T16:16:16.926-08:00By the way, I am first generation too. My family w...By the way, I am first generation too. My family was dirt, dirt poor (as in "no in house plumbing" poor). I had no idea going into this what I was getting into when I started. For our children, the best thing that can happen is for education to be cheap.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-34518736318152752032012-01-31T16:13:32.403-08:002012-01-31T16:13:32.403-08:00No, your kids will not be better off:
http://en.w...No, your kids will not be better off:<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_to_the_bottom<br /><br />If you look at the long term economic indicators in the U.S. the above theory is happening as we speak.<br /><br />Capital does not have borders. Therefore, you children will not be well off. No more than the children of educated people in other countries are per se better off because of education. <br /><br />Bruh RabbitAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-87291822058899671482012-01-31T16:09:13.556-08:002012-01-31T16:09:13.556-08:00Something that gets lost in the whole scam discuss...Something that gets lost in the whole scam discussion that we law grads, or grad students of any kind is that we are a small subset of the population, considering that only 27% of people even have Bachelor's degrees. I would say that the vast majority of us are at least marginally better off than someone without a degree. I'm speaking from experience, I'm the first in my family to graduate any sort of college. I guess my point is that even if we have lots of debt, our kids will be better off because their parent's were more educated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-89933786700034120682012-01-31T15:47:52.212-08:002012-01-31T15:47:52.212-08:00damn more typos.
If people cannot or will not avo...damn more typos.<br /><br />If people cannot or will not avoid risk, you want to minimize damage by reducing the impact of the risk.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-1903613218534223542012-01-31T15:35:27.514-08:002012-01-31T15:35:27.514-08:00mitigating risk (making education avoidable) shoul...mitigating risk (making education avoidable) should say mitigating risk (making education affordable). If peo cannot avoid the risk, you to minimize its damage by reduce its impact.<br /><br />Bruh RabbitAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-29365468076988942312012-01-31T15:33:56.423-08:002012-01-31T15:33:56.423-08:00Because I have been accused of writing long post, ...Because I have been accused of writing long post, I will keep this short.<br /><br />I do risk management for a living. Awareness is the bare minimum you need. Its not, however, the prize of risk management. The goals of risk management are transferring risk (State pays for education), mitigating risk (making education avoidable), or avoiding risk (reducing the number of people whoa attend), and, if all else fails, crisis management (forgiving existing debt).<br /><br />Risk awareness- which relies rational actors- does not produce risk management by itself.<br /><br />Sincerely,<br /><br />Bruh RabbitAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-24140154183597267562012-01-31T14:36:59.461-08:002012-01-31T14:36:59.461-08:00As Homer Simpson once said, "That can't b...As Homer Simpson once said, "That can't be true, honey. If it were I'd be terrified!"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com