tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post1593446362617571352..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: Taking candy from childrenLawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-56602867281689267792012-05-21T16:37:33.631-07:002012-05-21T16:37:33.631-07:00@11:24, I agree--this is a wonderful story!@11:24, I agree--this is a wonderful story!DJMhttp://moritzlaw.osu.edu/faculty/bios.php?ID=38noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-26784204811265591842012-05-21T15:54:49.180-07:002012-05-21T15:54:49.180-07:00And from the looks of that photo, 11:24, Professor...And from the looks of that photo, 11:24, Professor Wilkinson probably had not missed dinner that evening, either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-85850648542739640542012-05-21T11:50:50.225-07:002012-05-21T11:50:50.225-07:00@11:24
That is a FABULOUS story!!!! Thanks for r...@11:24<br /><br />That is a FABULOUS story!!!! Thanks for relating it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-74720278616077708182012-05-21T11:24:11.322-07:002012-05-21T11:24:11.322-07:00This post immediately made me think of a fond memo...This post immediately made me think of a fond memory of law school. My evening legal ethics class was dismissed at around 6 PM, and in the main hallway of our school, a bunch of food was placed out. Immediately, a bunch of us hungry students moved to help ourselves, but one of the caterers asked if we were part of a fundraising event taking place for the PIFP group. We said we were not, and told that we could not partake from the food.<br />A minute or two after that, our legal ethic professor came down the steps and into the room, saw the food, went over to it and started eating. The caterer asked if he was part of the PIFP group, and without any pause or hesitation he lied and said that he was and continued scarfing.<br />And now he's on Villanova's front page being celebrated as the president of the Pennsylvania Bar Association. Awesome.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-80958266701745548222012-05-21T09:03:08.359-07:002012-05-21T09:03:08.359-07:00Yeah this is good stuffYeah this is good stuffAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-78987604357579086132012-05-21T08:43:35.339-07:002012-05-21T08:43:35.339-07:00Hopefully this will grow, and more professors will...Hopefully this will grow, and more professors will start posting here. I'd love to see this as a counterweight to thinks like Volokh and Prawfsblag.Shark Sandwichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08866373313029422313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-465055698131287652012-05-21T07:52:37.514-07:002012-05-21T07:52:37.514-07:00JD Painter---
You ARE a typo.....JD Painter---<br /><br />You ARE a typo.....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-42259586049942514602012-05-21T06:41:41.467-07:002012-05-21T06:41:41.467-07:00Not only is the article amusing, but you've wo...Not only is the article amusing, but you've won the appreciation of our Preoccupied With Tone crowd. Nice work, DJM.Morse Code for Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15533833808776688455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-82054655946075034612012-05-21T06:20:55.438-07:002012-05-21T06:20:55.438-07:00Campos is Campos and DJM is DJM. They are both gre...Campos is Campos and DJM is DJM. They are both great in their own way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-92004056014782599432012-05-21T05:42:10.035-07:002012-05-21T05:42:10.035-07:00Interesting quote from an article in yesterday'...Interesting quote from an article in yesterday's New York Times:<br /><br />"Now, though, the trend has spread among men of nearly all races and ages, more than a third of whom have a college degree. In fact, the shift is most pronounced among young, white, college-educated men like Charles Reed, a sixth-grade math teacher at Patrick Henry Middle School in Houston. <br /><br />Mr. Reed, 25, intended to go to law school after a two-year stint with Teach for America, but he fell in love with the job. Though he says the recession had little to do with his career choice, he believes the tough times that have limited the prospects for new law school graduates have also helped make his father, a lawyer, more accepting. <br /><br />Still, Mr. Reed said of his father, 'In his mind, I’m just biding time until I decide to jump into a better profession.'"<br /><br /> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/21/business/increasingly-men-seek-success-in-jobs-dominated-by-women.html?hpwAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-20606439507127603132012-05-21T05:24:25.071-07:002012-05-21T05:24:25.071-07:00DJM's style is more intellectual, methodical, ...DJM's style is more intellectual, methodical, scientific and not as angry as Campos's style. This is a good thing for her as she is probably more mentally healthy. But it doesn't make for interesting posts.<br /><br />Homer Simpson it up a bit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-79299378521564709732012-05-20T17:32:04.018-07:002012-05-20T17:32:04.018-07:00@2:46
Oh No! No way! Motor Vehicle Extended Warr...@2:46<br /><br />Oh No! No way! Motor Vehicle Extended Warranties are the slickest thing going, and I can write a book about it.<br /><br />Just like the Law School or educational scam, it is multi layered, as all good, self respecting scams should be.<br /><br />Trust me, the smartest and meanest and toughest old Judge alive, would be mere putty in the slick hands of a good used car salesman (that knows his business) upon setting foot in that high pressured closing booth.<br /><br />And if you, 2:22PM, in your pride, think that you can outsmart the Extended Warranty business, you will be in for a rude awakening, and will end up blue in the face writing 10 page, single spaced typed letters to a Warranty company that will laugh right in your face.<br /><br />But for what it is worth, if anyone ever has a problem with a denied claim or any problems in general with a Motor Vehicle Extended Warranty, the best thing to do is to write to your State Insurance Department.<br /><br />That will be far more effective than other channels such as the better business bureau, or your state Attorney general, department of Consumer affairs, or any other consumer grievance channel, or a personal lawyer (the last will cost you money)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-76894132698565676722012-05-20T17:27:42.483-07:002012-05-20T17:27:42.483-07:00Exactly. $40 million is a TON of money to Sketcher...Exactly. $40 million is a TON of money to Sketchers. That would be like fining law school a billion dollars.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-10106847394459431822012-05-20T17:24:34.217-07:002012-05-20T17:24:34.217-07:00@402:
I saw that Sketchers settlement and I immed...@402:<br /><br />I saw that Sketchers settlement and I immediately thought of the law school scam. Apparently, law school scam victims told that a degree will give them an x% chance of making x dollars [based on one flawed group of people] are SOL because they should be "sophisticated" enough to know that the law school would use puffery to the point of lying, but a shoe company that claims x% of its customers lose weight has to pay a hefty settlement without massive blogging and numerous class action suits.<br /><br />So, fat middle-aged women who are dumb enough to think shoes help you lose weight = protected with vigilance from the FTC.<br /><br />Law students taking on non-dischargable debt who were dumb enough to believe that professional schools actually helped you get into a profession at the rates and salaries they claimed = nothing.Dicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-71296414368032475472012-05-20T16:02:53.251-07:002012-05-20T16:02:53.251-07:00I would still like to dicuss a comparison between ...I would still like to dicuss a comparison between the law school scam and http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2012/05/consumerrefund.shtmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-85088252766045302932012-05-20T14:46:58.654-07:002012-05-20T14:46:58.654-07:002:22:
Another important additional difference bet...2:22:<br /><br />Another important additional difference between the law school scam and those crappy warranties is that there is/was plenty of information on how bad those warranties are. The information on those warranty scams is plentiful. A person who buys one probably has not done their research.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-72186915717674370452012-05-20T14:22:22.930-07:002012-05-20T14:22:22.930-07:00^ ^ ^ I had typos
After law school, I landed a ...^ ^ ^ I had typos <br /><br />After law school, I landed a job with a company that sold motor vehicle extended warranties. The chairman of the company was an older lawyer, with a degree from Yale law school.<br /><br />One marketing channel the company used was telemarketing or "direct marketing" which I used to fancy was like taking "candy" or rather money from unsophisticated consumers, including trusting senior citizens.<br /><br />In some ways it can be said that Motor Vehicle Extended Warranties are just as, if not more deceptive than the law school scam.<br /><br />Perhaps scamming is just a part of life and business in general nowadays, and everywhere one goes.<br /><br />Maybe it has always been that way to a greater or lesser degree, and every generation learns the same lessons about scamming/life, over and over.<br /><br />One such lesson being: <br /><br />When the money is in your pocket, you are the boss. When you hand the money over, the other guy is now the boss.<br /><br />Except that if the money is borrowed tuition money it never does pass through the borrower's pockets, does it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-47939630529923845142012-05-20T14:20:37.133-07:002012-05-20T14:20:37.133-07:00Excellent post, DJM.Excellent post, DJM.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-19503559521055119072012-05-20T14:20:16.098-07:002012-05-20T14:20:16.098-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-19931580809490809662012-05-20T14:17:10.775-07:002012-05-20T14:17:10.775-07:00The candy and employment negotiation studies seem ...The candy and employment negotiation studies seem convincing. I'm less convinced about the driving studies - it may just be that poor people are obeying the traffic laws because they can't afford the fines and increased insurance costs associated with traffic citations. For the rich, these are just inconveniences.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-43477190697702812122012-05-20T14:05:50.858-07:002012-05-20T14:05:50.858-07:00I thought I'd add a separate comment about car...I thought I'd add a separate comment about cars and social status, because that's such an intriguing question. And only LawProf can fish comments out of the spam filter, so I'm trying to avoid overly long comments. (Keep that filter problem in mind if one of your comments doesn't appear this week; you should just try to repost.) <br /><br />We all know lots of people who own cars, so it's easy to think of exceptions to the socioeconomic class/car relationship. But remember again that the study measures average behaviors of one group against another. Sure there are very high-status people who drive clunkers, just as there are privileged people who don't like candy. But overall, studies have shown a relationship between class and car appearance (with the latter including overall maintenance as well as make and age).<br /><br />For a study like this, it's also important to focus on the vast range of drivers and cars rather than just on the extremes. The first study, for example, recorded the conduct of 274 drivers between 3 and 6 p.m. How many of those cars were driven by one percenters? And how many by the poorest of the poor? Probably very few in either category. The behavior of millionaires matters less than how the cars driven by accountants compare, on average, with the cars driven by retail sales clerks. <br /><br />It may also be useful to know that the researchers created only five categories of cars. A brand new car probably would fall into the same category as a two-year-old, well maintained car of the same make. That helps account for savvy purchases among the rich.<br /><br />But I don't urge anyone to take this study as the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Just consider whether it suggests tendencies that the relatively well-off may not recognize in themselves. I, for one, have become a little meeker at four-way stops.DJMhttp://moritzlaw.osu.edu/faculty/bios.php?ID=38noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-848707300349728772012-05-20T13:36:26.976-07:002012-05-20T13:36:26.976-07:00@ 11:56,
That's correct I think. I live south...@ 11:56,<br /><br />That's correct I think. I live south of one of the wealthiest communities in the country, and it is surprisingly common there to see a regular, non-luxury car parked in front of a mansion (and driven by residents). <br /><br />Conversely, in the more middle / upper-middle class locales to the south, it is also really common to see a Hummer parked in the driveway of a small two-story, and plenty of the cheapest-models from Lexus and Mercedes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-27913682720093495212012-05-20T13:31:29.294-07:002012-05-20T13:31:29.294-07:0010:28 and others, I strongly encourage you to ques...10:28 and others, I strongly encourage you to question the assumptions in social science studies. As an aside, I've found that law students and lawyers tend to be particularly good at those critiques. <br /><br />The candy jar contained about 40 individually wrapped candies, something in the middle of the spectrum between 5 brownies and a large jar of peppermints. That middling number probably was in just the right range for eliciting differences in behavior. I.e., it's a gray area in which people are likely to differ in the amount of candy they take. Remember that the question here isn't whether it is right or wrong to take no candies, 1 candy, or 5 candies. The question is whether people who had been primed to think of their "better than others" status took more candies than those who were primed to think of themselves as less well off than others.<br /><br />In social science studies like this one, researchers compare the average behavior of one group with the average behavior of another. They can never say exactly how much candy a group will take, much less whether a particular individual will take candy. (My son, for example, notes that he doesn't even like candy.) <br /><br />All the study can do is suggest that one group is likely to take more candy than another group. If the result is supported with a variety of other studies, it becomes more credible. But even a series of social science studies rarely proves a fact conclusively; human behavior is very variable. That's why I like to use social science to encourage people to reflect on their own behavior and probe unconscious attitudes they may hold. Researchers sometimes see things in us that we wouldn't see in ourselves.DJMhttp://moritzlaw.osu.edu/faculty/bios.php?ID=38noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-23831140075635244312012-05-20T11:57:27.149-07:002012-05-20T11:57:27.149-07:00And there is probably a not insignificant portion ...And there is probably a not insignificant portion of law faculty that would fit into that second category.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-77068218205625231042012-05-20T11:56:27.412-07:002012-05-20T11:56:27.412-07:00@10:28,
Bingo. In the studies that undergirded th...@10:28,<br /><br />Bingo. In the studies that undergirded the book "the millionaire next door" it found that large numbers of the actual rich (as opposed to pretend rich) don't drive luxury cars, and most don't even drive new cars, preferring to buy used after some sucker eats all the depreciation. <br /><br />So that study doesn't necessarily tell us how the wealthy behave as much as it tells us how those who have a strong craving to be considered wealthy behave.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com