tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post1547452263635550993..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: IBR: the trenchLawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger93125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-51007651296160699332012-10-11T08:51:33.491-07:002012-10-11T08:51:33.491-07:00This is the oldest dumbest myth about illegal immi...This is the oldest dumbest myth about illegal immigrants. Somebody would have to do that work and employers would simply have to raise wages until someone wanted to do it and also be able to afford to lice decently in this country. But its cool with you that illegal immigrants live lives of poverty? Must be nice to be a bleeding heart liberal (and this is coming from a hardcore progressive).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-60399672157110484732012-10-11T07:04:24.162-07:002012-10-11T07:04:24.162-07:00Its not about hating on the rich, you simplistic d...Its not about hating on the rich, you simplistic dolt. Its about what is best for all of society and for those who earn the most to pay the most back in taxes. Also, have you heard of regulatory capture? TARP? Citizens United? Robo-signing? Capital gains tax rates? I could go on forever.<br /><br />The rich don't give a fuck about you...you're just a tool to a better end for them and they would(and have) hire someone in China or India if they can do the job cheaper. And they would eliminate all minimum wage laws if they could.<br /><br />The fuck outta here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-40621456107155176722012-10-11T06:55:09.667-07:002012-10-11T06:55:09.667-07:00"Elite skills"...LOFL."Elite skills"...LOFL.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-56209699145424966652012-10-09T19:58:18.994-07:002012-10-09T19:58:18.994-07:00DJM, you say:
Taxes also feed the economy through...DJM, you say:<br /><br />Taxes also feed the economy through government spending (some of which even goes to educational institutions), <br /><br />It's puzzling to me that no one ever looks at the "European" solution. Why not have "government spending" purchase some things [education, health care, day care] <strong>so that individual consumers don't have to spend THEIR money on them.</strong>?<br /><br />At this point, why aren't we looking at a "European" system of higher taxes that pay for many societal benefits [see above] thus freeing a portion of consumers' income for other purchases?<br /><br />i, for one, would be happy to pay higher taxes and not have to worry about run-away health care costs, day care and maternity leave benefits, higher education, etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-26513605704011769702012-10-09T19:51:54.341-07:002012-10-09T19:51:54.341-07:00As an interpretive matter, it strikes me as unlike...As an interpretive matter, it strikes me as unlikely that SmallTownBoy is a she, but thanks for the sensible thoughts, 11:19 & 10:47!SmallTownBoynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-69075948742303305542012-10-09T17:17:09.777-07:002012-10-09T17:17:09.777-07:00Here, FTFY: "ENFORCED" conformity. The...Here, FTFY: "ENFORCED" conformity. They delete posts that are not ideologically suited to their blog. And I never, ever use foul language or personally attack posters. Yet the still routinely delete my comments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-2420749364609979102012-10-09T17:15:28.156-07:002012-10-09T17:15:28.156-07:00Sorry, I've been gone for a while. Yes, you a...Sorry, I've been gone for a while. Yes, you are a very strange left-winger. <br /><br />If you view that as a "thank-able" statement, then I am very happy to say "you are welcome". <br /><br />By the way - student loans are still not likenable to taxes. <br /><br />:-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-10376701989813520322012-10-09T15:27:03.181-07:002012-10-09T15:27:03.181-07:00Thanks?Thanks?SmallTownBoynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-16288278260758796802012-10-09T15:10:52.891-07:002012-10-09T15:10:52.891-07:00Thanks?Thanks?SmallTownBoynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-24354239804151053872012-10-09T14:14:38.049-07:002012-10-09T14:14:38.049-07:00Dear DJM:
Thank you for your thoughtful response....Dear DJM:<br /><br />Thank you for your thoughtful response. I'm still not sure high student debt impedes aggregate demand once the benefits and IBR are factored in.<br /><br />Let's back up a moment. There are many ways to finance education. One is to subsidize the cost of providing it and charge low prices so as to increase access and spread the cost across the population, not only the users of the service. This is the public services model and it's what European (and formerly US public) universities follow. It has various and well-known costs and benefits.<br /><br />Another way is for schools to charge what the market will bear and for the government to use subsidies to encourage consumption, generally at a higher net price to the consumer. We could exempt universities from taxes, subsidize and guarantee loans to students, exempt interest payments from taxes, or forgive loans. We now do all these things. Notably, this is also a key difference between our health care model and Europe's. Again, the costs and benefits to the intended beneficiaries of the system are reasonably well-known.<br /><br />But moving from micro to macro is hard. Our current educational and health care systems are no doubt wasteful and result in fewer people getting the underlying service (because the cost is still very high despite subsidies) and those that do incurring higher costs. However, I am not sure higher costs (in either area but let's stick with education) is going to reduce aggregate demand in the way you suggest. I think that is a very important econ research question that the Fed among others should tackle (though Bernanke himself has warned about student loan debt).<br /><br />One place the "trench" argument loses me is the assumption that people will reduce discretionary spending in response to having less discretionary income. They may. Or, they may reduce savings and/or increase work hours, to the extent that that is an option (e.g., in a healthier economy or region or sector), trading time for money. The recent data points I have seen on this are all over the place, in part because we're still in a crisis. It's unclear what happens long-term when a single category of expenses rises; people have options and when working more or saving less is an option they don't necessarily stick to set income/expense patterns.<br /><br />Second, we have my earlier point about reallocating demand from consumer products (and other discretionary purchases) to education. I think this would be a similarly fruitful area for empirical economic research: does the economic impact of a dollar spent at a Mercedes dealer exceed that of a dollar spent on tuition? Research on fiscal multipliers suggests government stimulus spending has hugely positive effects, exceeding what comparable amounts of private spending ordinarily accomplish, but I don't think it's clear that government subsidies to education are equal in this respect. They may still be pretty good, however, and better than consumer purchases. We (or at least I) don't really know.<br /><br />You also mention that working for a university is not as good deal as it once was. I am hard pressed to think of a sector where this is not the case; during a tight labor market, working conditions (including salaries) improve, and we don't have one now. That doesn't undermine the point that universities as an aggregate are responsible for a huge amount of almost purely domestic economic <br />activity, however, including employment. <br /><br />We may ultimately have to agree to disagree, but in the meantime I would like to see more research on the important points you raise. It is possible that our current method of financing education is both inefficient and creates lots of jobs. In fact, that is almost certain.<br /><br />The question is whether it's a net negative for the economy as a whole, and with IBR spreading grads' true debt obligations along a far wider base - the US taxpayer overall, in a system that essentially socializes debt on the back end - I'm not sure.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-9132911253850028202012-10-09T13:08:52.881-07:002012-10-09T13:08:52.881-07:00Prawfsblawg is not about intellectual honesty or a...Prawfsblawg is not about intellectual honesty or academic freedom. It's all about conformity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-70306098111928872872012-10-09T12:45:12.143-07:002012-10-09T12:45:12.143-07:00Professor Campos this is hardly the worst - you an...<b>Professor Campos this is hardly the worst - you and DJM have been compared to the Gestapo and NKVD on Prawfsblog</b><br /><br />"To shift the context about as far as possible from that of present day U.S. law professors, the extreme cases are those in which authorities literally kill the scholars and other educated elites--Poland at the start of WWII, Cambodia under Pol Pot. In other cases, faculty are merely fired, or intimidated into joining or disavowing some ideological affiliation, etc. Eastern Europe experienced much of this in the postwar era; we had a lesser but noteworthy variant in the era of Red Scares. Democracies need among other things vibrant civil societies and independent intellectuals, as dictators recognized. Granted, these are references to officials with particularly extreme sensitivity to "scholarly impact." Still, this, too, suggests that the value of scholarship is more collective and amorphous than individual and measureable."<br /><br />http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2012/10/defending-scholarship-contd.html#comments<br /><br />I did actually respond with a pretty outraged and as usual dyslexic post or too - as did "FOARP" - in a display of their motto in action <br /><br /><i><b>"Where Intellectual Honesty Has (Almost Always) Trumped Partisanship -- Albeit in a Kind of Boring Way Until Recently -- Since 2005" </b></i> <br /><br />Prawfsblog deleted the entire line of some 11 critical postings - leaving by the way just the astonishing lickassly:<br /><br />"This is a very smart comment. Thank you.<br /><br />Posted by: David | Oct 7, 2012 2:22:31 AM"MacKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10442386017204584747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-7311678045513771512012-10-09T11:43:44.318-07:002012-10-09T11:43:44.318-07:00Please see the end of the comments for my thoughts...Please see the end of the comments for my thoughts on this.DJMhttp://moritzlaw.osu.edu/faculty/bios.php?ID=38noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-67416267196319198752012-10-09T11:19:23.224-07:002012-10-09T11:19:23.224-07:00Sooo, 11:06, your attempt to argue you're not ...Sooo, 11:06, your attempt to argue you're not childish ... .... is to throw a widdle temper tantrum?<br /><br />Is s/he incorrect about what s/he said? (I do not know the answer to this question.)<br /><br />But I still don't see why, even if correct, this is a demonstration of bigotry. Unless s/he has proof that its worldview is wrong, I mean.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-84388256697398678542012-10-09T11:15:39.992-07:002012-10-09T11:15:39.992-07:00"How do you plan to deport them"
As men..."How do you plan to deport them"<br /><br />As mentioned, it is said that a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. <br /><br />Logistically speaking, though, it's not even close to being the insurmountable obstacle that those who disfavor deportation pretend it to be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-42349727057478663442012-10-09T11:09:09.548-07:002012-10-09T11:09:09.548-07:00There 10M+ illegals in America (according to DHS)....There 10M+ illegals in America (according to DHS). The real number is probably higher. How exactly do you plan to deport them all?<br /><br />Above poster was implying that if only we get rid of all the illegals, all these jobs will open up and the future will be bright again for the thousands of broke law school graduates. <br /><br /><br />Rainmakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06592999428188455287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-85392499685057944262012-10-09T11:06:24.553-07:002012-10-09T11:06:24.553-07:00Fuck off, 10:47AM.
Three of the four things he me...Fuck off, 10:47AM.<br /><br />Three of the four things he mentioned were prison, policing and fraud. I don't think calling him a bigot for demonstrating his bigotry is a childish thing to do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-53167480257861884322012-10-09T11:00:22.881-07:002012-10-09T11:00:22.881-07:00Anon @ 9:32, thank you for your thoughtful comment...Anon @ 9:32, thank you for your thoughtful comments--these are difficult (and serious) issues to sort through. I agree that, for purposes of this post, we can put distributive issues aside. But there are still features of the student loan system that are very worrisome; many of the other commenters have already pointed to them. To me, the key problems lie in the length of the loans, their size, and the fact that we are layering them on top of other forms of debt (both public and private).<br /><br />Car loans typically last 3-7 years, and the buyer may trade in the car before the loan period even ends. There is some shifting of future income to the present, but it is much less dramatic than with student loans. The same is true of other forms of consumer credit.<br /><br />The sheer size of student loans is new and escalating; I don't think policymakers and economists have accounted for their impact on the future economy. It's absolutely true that these loans have stimulated the economy for the last ten years, but now it's payback time. What happens now? I find it hard to avoid the conclusion that there will be less consumer spending over the next 20 years--and our economy is far from recovered at this point.<br /><br />I think we will see the adverse effects even in spending by the university employees you mention. The non-faculty positions on university campuses are now major middle-class occupations. But those are precisely the people with educational loans; it's hard to get a university position without at least a BA.<br /><br />For the last twenty years, universities were hiring more of those staff, which in turn created consumers with money to spend. Most of those staff had graduated before the tuition wars, so they didn't carry heavy loans; they were able to spend their middle-class incomes. But the percentage of university staff with student loan debt is rising every year. We're not raising salaries for those non-faculty positions; in fact, universities are creating more contingent, and lower paid jobs given the surfeit of unemployed new grads. Low or stagnant wages plus higher loan debt means that these university staff have much less to feed the economy going forward.<br /><br />It comes down to the central point I raised: Would it be a good idea to increase middle-class tax rates by 10% for the next twenty years? Or even 5%? Taxes also feed the economy through government spending (some of which even goes to educational institutions), but economists worry a lot about the accompanying decrease in consumer spending. If that's a concern, then I think student loans and IBR are as well.<br />DJMhttp://moritzlaw.osu.edu/faculty/bios.php?ID=38noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-46503117356699690682012-10-09T10:47:48.567-07:002012-10-09T10:47:48.567-07:00Why are some people so willing to shut down conver...Why are some people so willing to shut down conversation that they'll throw the "bigot" or "racist" label out whenever they see a comment that doesn't cotton to their worldview?<br /><br />Take a look at what STB wrote. Is he right? (No, or at least not by half in my worldview). Did he say that illegal immigrants were sub-human or some such? (No, not that I can tell.)<br /><br />So whaddup with "bigot" label every time you see something written you'd rather not discuss?<br /><br />Grow TF up. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-5692728274557031652012-10-09T10:45:01.413-07:002012-10-09T10:45:01.413-07:00" impractical solution "
I hear this c..." impractical solution "<br /><br /><br />I hear this chanted as a mantra repetitively.<br /><br />Just why, in no loose terms, is it impractical?<br /><br />A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. <br /><br /><br />As for, "different problem than what we're discussing here" - agreed. Guys above got a bit OT, diddneh?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-28064571935379987652012-10-09T10:42:50.148-07:002012-10-09T10:42:50.148-07:00You are a very, very strange left-winger.You are a very, very strange left-winger.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-11433795312853622652012-10-09T10:42:26.005-07:002012-10-09T10:42:26.005-07:00Deporting all the illegals is an impractical solut...Deporting all the illegals is an impractical solution to a different problem than what we're discussing here.Rainmakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06592999428188455287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-57931418529201659222012-10-09T10:32:35.306-07:002012-10-09T10:32:35.306-07:00True colors = not brainwashed by the same PC educa...True colors = not brainwashed by the same PC educational racket that is running tha law school scam-oh, you trust themonimmigration but not tuition?? Smart.SmallTownBoynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-80183786850565439632012-10-09T10:25:30.538-07:002012-10-09T10:25:30.538-07:00No. Truth isn't bigotry. But bigotry is.No. Truth isn't bigotry. But bigotry is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-63928278701568895612012-10-09T10:23:32.039-07:002012-10-09T10:23:32.039-07:00SmallTownBoy shows his true colors! Big day.SmallTownBoy shows his true colors! Big day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com