tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post1315461793347256370..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: A couple of Class of 2011 placement chartsLawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-54944055181120618732012-03-21T14:02:13.658-07:002012-03-21T14:02:13.658-07:00Any evidence to back up your assumption that state...Any evidence to back up your assumption that state/local judicial clerks tend to finish their clerkships unemployed?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-57823304347768178112012-03-16T08:21:07.934-07:002012-03-16T08:21:07.934-07:00Seriously guys, we have a structurally flawed syst...Seriously guys, we have a structurally flawed system that is destroying the futures of thousands of young people and jeopardizing the future of our profession, and you guys want to quibble about whether some anectdotal law student uses a Mont Blanc or a ball point pen?<br /><br />Back when I was in law school in the 90's, I knew students who lived off Ramen noodles (I was one of them) as well as students who made car payments with loan money. We all have to pay back the loans, however. Myself personally, I did not have a dime to spare (meaning at the end of every year, I had no savings or 401(k)) for the first five years out of lawschool. And my loans were a lot, lot less.<br /><br />More imporantly, each and every student loan debtor will pay way more in interest over time than they'll spend on iphones, laptops, etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-12855532160100363402012-03-16T06:11:37.013-07:002012-03-16T06:11:37.013-07:00Two things I will now carp about:
(1) The prestig...Two things I will now carp about:<br /><br />(1) The prestige of a clerkship is inversely proportional to its usefulness. The best learning experience a young lawyer can have is to work a year in a busy, downtown state courtroom, where she will see every type of motion, argument and style of representation. Yes state clerkships barely count, while genteel federal clerkships, with their lighter dockets, are considered superior.<br /><br />(2) 5:24 am -- A trip to Europe or anywhere abroad can, if done correctly, be much less expensive than a trip within the USA.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-89714271448983691502012-03-16T05:24:45.695-07:002012-03-16T05:24:45.695-07:00From what I see on a daily basis, law students are...From what I see on a daily basis, law students are still living beyond their means during school (assuming that at least a fair percentage of those I see are taking out loans).<br /><br />Almost all have all of the newest Apple products. 75%+ spend a majority of each class on FaceBook or shopping online. I've heard countless stories about trips during spring break ("normal" places like FL but also overseas (Italy, etc.)) and in which foreign lands they're spending their coming summer, etc.<br /><br />I don't know about the cars and housing, but if what they carry with them and where they travel is any indication, I doubt they're slumming and relying on public transit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-73356786411999362782012-03-16T04:23:57.886-07:002012-03-16T04:23:57.886-07:00wow my typos - I keep switching keyboard types - d...wow my typos - I keep switching keyboard types - don't dress better than the jurors.<br /><br />MacKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-14277760601861867712012-03-16T04:22:38.731-07:002012-03-16T04:22:38.731-07:008:15PM
It is always advisable for an interviewee ...8:15PM<br /><br />It is always advisable for an interviewee to dress to fit in - so if someone is interviewing with us I would not be socked at Jeans or Chinos - but in previous roles I would have expected a suit (we have banned partners wearing bicycle shorts though - yikes!) Indeed if you read say - The Perfect Interview, Max A. Eggert - a book incidentally every law student should buy - it will make precisely this point. So I ask you - what brand of suit do your partners wear - do some have a Mont Blanc in their shirt pocket at all times - a Rolex?<br /><br />Incidentally, I once worked with a partner, a very successful litigator, who made a lot of money. His tips were for jury trials (a) wear a timex; (b) go to the local Sears or other mid level department store and buy a couple of suits there (don't free better than the jurors); and (c) always be extra polite in the courthouse, hold doors, etc. You never know who is a juror. I also managed to stop a harassment complaint from a young paralegal against him the time he sent her down to the new stand with instructions to get a copy of various mens magazines and two cartons of cigarettes ("doesn't matter what brand") - he was going to visit a client in jail - and in that jail these items were currency.<br /><br />In terms of hard work - since class rank in 1L and to a lesser degree 2L matters so much - and matter more than it did say 30, 20 and 10 years ago, law school has become much more hard working and viciously competitive. It was bad 20 years ago, I hear it is savage today.<br /><br />MacKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-2994694940587840072012-03-16T03:35:28.587-07:002012-03-16T03:35:28.587-07:008:47 is clearly a troll.8:47 is clearly a troll.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-42876000329408599412012-03-16T03:14:36.009-07:002012-03-16T03:14:36.009-07:00On a lighter note, this is brilliant:
http://www....On a lighter note, this is brilliant:<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDlK2aAMGyA<br /><br />"An eager law student visits Doo Lee's House of Jurisdoctorates which is a "fast education" law school that even has a drive thru window."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-33086640402622953162012-03-16T01:56:46.593-07:002012-03-16T01:56:46.593-07:00They dress to emulate you. They want to impress c...They dress to emulate you. They want to impress clients and fit in. Looked in the mirror lately?<br /><br />Why do you refer to law students as lazy? What do you know of their circumstances? Honestly if you're interviewing top people, you should assume they worked hard.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-18532549374609813632012-03-16T01:53:10.875-07:002012-03-16T01:53:10.875-07:00Oops it auto- corrected "lathamed" to &q...Oops it auto- corrected "lathamed" to " lathered" which is funny in a sad way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-80000172893093612842012-03-16T01:51:09.442-07:002012-03-16T01:51:09.442-07:00Hahahahaha. So networking is a lost art? No one m...Hahahahaha. So networking is a lost art? No one makes friends at the country club anymore? <br /><br />I'm sure all those lathered, deferred and no- offered attorneys just needed to learn networkin. The economy had nothing to do with it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-41320410184341506212012-03-16T01:48:08.755-07:002012-03-16T01:48:08.755-07:00For almost everyone biglaw is the only way to pay ...For almost everyone biglaw is the only way to pay back loans and afford law school.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-45758383617018208232012-03-16T01:40:40.471-07:002012-03-16T01:40:40.471-07:00815
Lol at anyone taking TLS posts as a reason to...815<br /><br />Lol at anyone taking TLS posts as a reason to drop legislation. Even more at someone who would claim to print out thousands of pages of posts from there. As people say on TLS " pics or it didn't happen."<br /><br />You made my morning!<br /><br />PS. If you read carefully people are calculating what they need to make to repay the debt schools cost them to go- it's calked a cost- benefit analysis. Most people overestimate their earnings/ shot at biglaw. Wonder where they got the idea everyone makes $160,00? Here's a hint- law school publications.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-59580278852150158892012-03-16T01:12:41.200-07:002012-03-16T01:12:41.200-07:00On a previous thread I pointed out that law firms ...On a previous thread I pointed out that law firms are under no obligation to tell NLJ or AmLaw who they hire or from what school. I think we need to ask ourselves how much of the disclosure that started in the 80s was a good thing. Let me start by saying that Steven Brill (the original editor of the American Lawyer) is and was an unmitigated asshole. Brill spend the 80s preaching law is a business - he (and the Hildebrant consulting firm) preached the doctrine of rip off your clients - I remember a column in the American Lawyer explaining that a laser printer was really just a photocopier and that lawyers should therefore charge 25¢ a page for printing - and the American Lawyer was all for things like marking up photocopies to 30¢ or marking up Westlaw and Lexis- there were endless articles about looking for profit centers and jokes about photocopiers being worth more to the firm than associates - even though ABA rules prohibit marking up disbursements. Then the American Lawyer published the Skaddenomics article decrying the practices it had promoted.<br /><br />But the big failing of the American Lawyer was in publishing ludicrous articles in which it reported partners' earnings in BigLaw and firm profitability. Some of the articles were based on leaks - usually of the big earners numbers in a few firms - but then if firms would not "play ball" AmLaw published guesstimates as fact. Then many law-firms cooperated - all massaging their numbers upwards - and all over the legal profession partners making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year felt they were screwed (while to be blunt their wives complained (at least the wives of some of the ones I worked with) about the "fact" that they were not making enough.) The next step was calling in Hildebrant who always made the same suggestion - billable hours targets - either implement them or raise them. Personally I regard billable targets as an instruction to the associates to "rip off" the client and as a GC made our firms disclose the official and unofficial target - and since I have been in fee cases, it is interesting how the billables always soar at the end of the "year" for which they are counted, regardless of matter status, packed with research and document review.<br /><br />Everyone should read the BLS earnings statistics for each state and metropolitan area - for any lawyer to make $100,000 a year puts them in the mainstream, $200,000 is doing quite well, $300,000 is very good, $500,000 is a lot and $1 million is stratospheric. Part of the law school problem is that the public have come to believe that the earnings of a very small proportion of lawyers, maybe 1-2% who become senior partners in BigLaw are in fact the norm - and this has driven the demand to go to law school and law school tuition. It also drove many law students' lifestyles at least in the early 90s.<br /><br />MacKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-8363494290634600932012-03-16T01:12:22.486-07:002012-03-16T01:12:22.486-07:00One could point out that there are far to many law...One could point out that there are far to many law schools in the DC metro area: Georgetown, GW, AU, Catholic, UDC and Howard - and just outside George Mason - seven law schools pumping out about 2400 JDs per year - and that is before you add UVA whose main market is the DC Metro (300 odd) the Yalies (not many jobs in New Haven) and the Harvard and UVa grads. Washington DC is expected to absorb a huge number of JDs a year.<br /><br />On law student lifestyles - hm. With caveat that my knowledge comes from the late 80s and early 90s, when tuition was around $12-14,000 (and that was then the highest) - when I was working my way through without student loans. My first year my parents were in DC and I lived in a very comfortable home (that why I went there and not to a school in say Cambridge) but we were not wealthy and the lack of student loans meant that I had to earn most of my tuition and living expenses and worried about every ¢ and working 30+ hours a week hurt my grades. I was therefore surprised at my classmates' lifestyles, given their worries about loan debt; many of them went to Italy on a summer program, bought or leased new cars, rented very nice apartments (we ended up with a strung out junkie ripped off by the dealers upstairs in ours with a knife) and ate out in pricy-ish restaurants, shopped at Brooks Brothers, Britches of Georgetown and wore Rolex, had new-laptops and laser printers (in 1990 this was a very expensive) and put Mont Blanc pens in their pockets for interviews (yes I used a fountain pen too - but that was to try to make my crap handwriting legible.) I do not know if loan-dependent law students still live as well - I doubt it - but I can see how someone who went to law school 20 years ago might think so.<br /><br />MacKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-16952331268918527402012-03-15T23:14:19.581-07:002012-03-15T23:14:19.581-07:006:16/6:47,
Oh wise one, please tell me this art ...6:16/6:47, <br /><br />Oh wise one, please tell me this art form you call "networking". From my experience, this involves one or more of the following: <br /><br />1. Paying $50-$1500/year for the "privilege" of meeting people several times per month who may or may not refer work to you. This may include bar associations of dubious quality as well as some other business networking groups (BNI, Provisers, etc.) <br /><br />2. Paying another $50-$500 to attend an event where it is nothing more than paying homage to a judge (for whatever reason), paying homage to newly elected board members, or other weird nonsense. <br /><br />3. Pay $500+ (along with hotel and other incidental expenses) to attend conferences where you will meet some people who you will likely never see again. <br /><br />4. Having lunch/night out at a strip club/bridge game with other attorneys who are either too busy (or pretend to be), are condescending, or are dishonest. <br /><br />If this is what networking is, I would like to get a tuition refund of my third year of law school. I can use the money to do the above.WCLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-57743532101291087532012-03-15T22:12:12.643-07:002012-03-15T22:12:12.643-07:00phew, i'll go ahead and assume the good profes...phew, i'll go ahead and assume the good professor is sound asleep. i would hope he wouldn't allow this useless back and forth to go on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-38064037649946482432012-03-15T21:57:35.911-07:002012-03-15T21:57:35.911-07:00lol'ed irl at all the crazy trollslol'ed irl at all the crazy trollsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-46315274057058696242012-03-15T21:51:39.772-07:002012-03-15T21:51:39.772-07:00"Go cry on your mother's shoulder if you ..."Go cry on your mother's shoulder if you want sympathy for having to be dehumanized in filing out a form once a year to feed off of the public dole."<br /><br />I'm too busy financially fucking you in the ass, bitch. That's what you morons forget. If I don't get a job, I'll rape your butt entitlement style. Dumbasses.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-49224672085835667052012-03-15T20:53:20.291-07:002012-03-15T20:53:20.291-07:00The commentators on this board are very good at se...The commentators on this board are very good at seeing the flaws in others, but they fail completely in seeing their own flaws.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-62859769083366697992012-03-15T20:47:39.255-07:002012-03-15T20:47:39.255-07:00This is 8:15PM.
I did not create the system you d...This is 8:15PM.<br /><br />I did not create the system you decry in sour grapes mode. I didn't fall for the "pie in the sky" scenario that the law school deans painted for you. Maybe your parents coddled you too much or insulated you from the realities of life. Well, let me teach you the first reality. Life revolves around money. People are fucked over and killed over money. Do you really think colleges and universities are eleemosynary institutions that strive to create an educated society that can discuss Kant and Rawls in civil discourse? No you idiot. Higher education is a fucking scam if you didn't know. Your parents told you that you would be the next Johnnie Cochran and you believed them. You put on the rose tinted glasses and drank the Kool Aid and you say fuck me? No kid, fuck you for being stupid. Law school will pan out for a few lottery winners. The rest of you will wither away in misery and you expect to put that burden on society? And then you expect society to side with you? Do you think the average layperson can sympathize with a lawyer? Lawyers today are seen at the same level as used car salesmen. It's not my fault that you believed a JD diploma would confer your with a magical mantle of prestige and that employers would be begging to hire you. You created that image in your brain. Go cry on your mother's shoulder if you want sympathy for having to be dehumanized in filing out a form once a year to feed off of the public dole.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-58155665757752532492012-03-15T20:19:52.233-07:002012-03-15T20:19:52.233-07:00That's right fucker 8:15. You created a system...That's right fucker 8:15. You created a system that used lies about jobs to defraud me into wasting three years and a ton of money. I got an LLM too and now I'm in 300k of debt, and I love - love - filling out that IBR form once a year to turn my required repayment from $3,000 per month to $0 per month.<br /><br />Fuck<br /><br />You<br /><br />You thought the law schools would victimize me, but now I'm victimizing you. Bitch.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-38377672750896541552012-03-15T20:15:03.114-07:002012-03-15T20:15:03.114-07:00When you hear today's law grads say "I...When you hear today's law grads say "I'll just go on IBR and coast through life," it shows the general millenial mindset. They take reckless risks by going to law school and then saddle the taxpayer. Last summer, my senator was looking into proposing a revision of title 11, section 523(a)(8) of the Bankruptcy Code. I made an appointment with him through his liason and printed hundred of pages from a website called "Top Law Schools." I showed my senator how kids were taking calculating risks to default on future obligations and that it would be an injustice to the taxpayer to reward their recklessness by allowing them to discharge student loans. I was pleased that he seemed concerned and quickly dropped his talk about bankruptcy reform. If you kids have a passion for the law or love the law, learn to live with paying its pricetag.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-49736377036281684032012-03-15T20:06:07.411-07:002012-03-15T20:06:07.411-07:00From the Chronicle.
Millennials Are More 'Gene...From the Chronicle.<br />Millennials Are More 'Generation Me' Than 'Generation We,' Study Finds<br />By Joanna Chau<br /><br />Millennials, the generation of young Americans born after 1982, may not be the caring, socially conscious environmentalists some have portrayed them to be, according to a study described in the new issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.<br /><br />The study, which compares the traits of young people in high school and entering college today with those of baby boomers and Gen X'ers at the same age from 1966 to 2009, shows an increasing trend of valuing money, image, and fame more than inherent principles like self-acceptance, affiliation, and community. "The results generally support the 'Generation Me' view of generational differences rather than the 'Generation We,'" the study's authors write in a report published today, "Generational Differences in Young Adults' Life Goals, Concern for Others, and Civic Orientation."<br /><br />For example, college students in 1971 ranked the importance of being very well off financially No. 8 in their life goals, but since 1989, they have consistently placed it at the top of the list.<br /><br />The study also found a decline in civic interest, such as political participation and trust in government, as well as in concern for others, including charity donations, and in the importance of having a job worthwhile to society.<br /><br />"Having a population that is civically involved, is interested in helping others, and interested in the problems in the nation and the world, are generally good things," she says. But Ms. Twenge does not believe this is happening. People are "more isolated and wrapped up in their own problems," she says. "It doesn't bode well for society in general."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-4200503093305882262012-03-15T19:29:11.091-07:002012-03-15T19:29:11.091-07:00"When they come in for interviews, I see them..."When they come in for interviews, I see them wearing designer suits, Louis Vuitton brief case, Mont Blanc pen and the latest Iphone. I am sure most used student loan money to buy these expensive accoutrements."<br /><br />Oh come on an Iphone is $200 bucks. You're just old. Also, I don't believe the stuff about LV bags and MB pens. Who brings a pen to an interview?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com