tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post8947707316826582023..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: The end of the law school tuition bubble?LawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger128125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-16055003433821185342014-08-08T03:14:30.081-07:002014-08-08T03:14:30.081-07:00Nice blog here! Also your website loads up fast. T...Nice blog here! Also your website loads up fast. Thanks.Law Tutorshttp://www.privatelawtutor.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-18881579983504970242012-11-22T20:15:29.695-08:002012-11-22T20:15:29.695-08:00By the way BC law and New York Law had their asses...By the way BC law and New York Law had their asses sued off by pissed off students. Of course the judges ruled in favor of the schools. They all in on it. If you really crush the LSAT, got to a school that costs no money. Maybe they give you tuition remission. I know guys that worked for juvenile justice that arem't paying for school or at least had discounted prices. The local firms..whether national or not always hire the local boys anyway. Why give your money to these overpaid fuckheads.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-74657438152179347002012-11-22T19:43:24.368-08:002012-11-22T19:43:24.368-08:00I totally agree with the rant above. I think the l...I totally agree with the rant above. I think the law schools are just as culpable. I mean nobody in academics deserves that kind of tuition. They're tenured, they're not on the line. It's all a scam. I graduated from college in 1997 and had worked for a lawyer in upstate NY while in school. His daughter went to Cornell Law and was teaching the LSAT in Ithaca..couldn't find a job. He was sucessful because he ran the country bank..mortgages..title work..only game in town type of idea. He said do accounting, finance, anything other than law. He then proceeded to take out the white pages and show me the number of lawyers in upstate NY. He said..Now take that number and multiply it by 10,000 and you get NYC...maybe He said unless you make law review and go to michigan, Harvard,etc. forget it. It's a scam. The law schools massage employment stats and the deans and profs rake in the cash. IB associates make $350K and they're working 110 hours per week. You blow a deal, you're fired. These fuckers aren't even on the line. The undergrads schools are also to blame. I mean I get a letter from my undergrad school that wants me to contribute to its endowment b/c they need more money after spending $30 mm on a squash facility. I told the head of development to fuck himself. UNless there is more disclosure, these schools are running a racket like that of the mob. Glad I am a CPA. I mean U MInnesota law is a prime example..."98.9% of those reporting employment" are employed. What the FUCK does that mean ? You mean out of 300 law school students, 98/100 or 9/10 are employed. What bullshit is that ? You're really better off going to a value play like U maryand, Texas, or Georgia, try your shot at law review at a lower price and if you don't get it..then fuck it at least you didn't spend $80,000 per annum at G'Town.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-69538783282731561182012-03-29T10:31:04.476-07:002012-03-29T10:31:04.476-07:00I've been an active poster on TLS since I appl...I've been an active poster on TLS since I applied to law school four years ago. I am familiar with the Choosing Your Law School forums and the insanity that goes on there. Unlike many of the anti-reform movement, I also know real, live college students and how poor their grasp on reality is. Not a single person I know from UG or high school attended a school ranked higher than 100. <br /><br />It's become clear to me at this point, having a) lived through a recession in which close family members who saved, scrimped, and behaved with financial prudence suffer because of the rash financial decisions of a few borrowers/lenders/banks, b) about to enter a profession which is a cartel protected partially by the trust the public has for lawyers, that we cannot continue on this present course without risking irreparable damage to the profession. There are law deans, professors, and biglawyers who benefit in the short-term from the status quo and either don't know or don't care about the long-term effects it will have on the profession. There are students at good law schools, who see themselves in a completely different caste from the lower ranked grads scrambling for doc review or small firm jobs. They still haven't realized that we are all in this "thing of ours" together. 45K JDs with 20K job openings affects all of us. <br /><br />In my mind it is immaterial whether her decision has crossed the line into being "her responsibility" or not. The question is not "who is to blame," but "what is to be done?"<br /><br />Note that my main advice to her was to retake, IBR or go to community college for a year, continue to work while using the many free or cheap resources out there to study for the LSAT (I used TLS and the official LSAT books to prepare). This was even more important because she did the worst on the Games section- which is all about preparation can be mastered with the use of the Powerscore bibles. Many people who read this site would advise her not to attend law school AT ALL, citing the studies that show lawyers have higher than average rates of depression, suicide, substance abuse, and anxiety. I would not go that far, but I would favor a system in which students were required to wait until they had acquired certain credentials and there were cost-effective ways to acquire those credentials. Law school on demand is bad for everyone except professors and deans.bored3Lnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-12280444969116977542012-03-29T06:24:15.581-07:002012-03-29T06:24:15.581-07:00BOTH BLOGGER AND WORDPRESS OFFER FREE BLOGGING PLA...BOTH BLOGGER AND WORDPRESS OFFER FREE BLOGGING PLATFORMS. WHY ARE YOU NOT CREATING YOUR OWN BLOG TO COVER THIS IMPORTANT PROPOSED LEGISLATION!?!?!?!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-10209592165538962342012-03-29T06:13:56.927-07:002012-03-29T06:13:56.927-07:00SENATOR DURBIN HAS INTRODUCED A BILL ALLOWING FOR ...SENATOR DURBIN HAS INTRODUCED A BILL ALLOWING FOR BANKRUPTCY DISCHARGE OF PRIVATE STUDENT LOAN DEBT. WHY ARE YOU NOT COVERING THIS IMPORTANT PROPOSED LEGISLATION!?!?!?!?!<br /><br />SENATOR DURBIN HAS INTRODUCED A BILL ALLOWING FOR BANKRUPTCY DISCHARGE OF PRIVATE STUDENT LOAN DEBT. WHY ARE YOU NOT COVERING THIS IMPORTANT PROPOSED LEGISLATION!?!?!?!?!<br /><br />SENATOR DURBIN HAS INTRODUCED A BILL ALLOWING FOR BANKRUPTCY DISCHARGE OF PRIVATE STUDENT LOAN DEBT. WHY ARE YOU NOT COVERING THIS IMPORTANT PROPOSED LEGISLATION!?!?!?!?!<br /><br />SENATOR DURBIN HAS INTRODUCED A BILL ALLOWING FOR BANKRUPTCY DISCHARGE OF PRIVATE STUDENT LOAN DEBT. WHY ARE YOU NOT COVERING THIS IMPORTANT PROPOSED LEGISLATION!?!?!?!?!<br /><br />SENATOR DURBIN HAS INTRODUCED A BILL ALLOWING FOR BANKRUPTCY DISCHARGE OF PRIVATE STUDENT LOAN DEBT. WHY ARE YOU NOT COVERING THIS IMPORTANT PROPOSED LEGISLATION!?!?!?!?!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-76256472644778456282012-03-29T05:44:05.130-07:002012-03-29T05:44:05.130-07:00Individual students are responsible for their own ...Individual students are responsible for their own decisions, and have no one to blame but themselves if they choose to take on excessive amounts of debt after being warned that they are likely to graduate into (at best) a job that can't be realistically expected to provide a salary adequate to service the debt and (at worst) complete unemployment. <br /><br />However, government and law school administrators also have a responsibility not to create and perpetuate a system that allows students to make this mistake. This is exactly the same as the housing crisis; of course people who took out 400K mortages on 40K annual salaries are responsible for their poor decision, but no bank should have made such a loan to begin with.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-84169372337861452812012-03-29T05:41:36.323-07:002012-03-29T05:41:36.323-07:00No, K-12 may be more expensive but it is only fund...No, K-12 may be more expensive but it is only funded through the state. Can anyone here follow a simple argument??? The point was that because of budget cuts (which some of you pointed out actually didn't happen in your particular States,which makes this argument even more pointless...if costs have risen and the state still pays for it then how exactly does this apply here?) law schools were able to charge crazy tuition from every student. This is not happening for K-12...the state still pays for it all. The point wasn't that the cost has risen (see below for why) but who has to pay for the vacuum if the state starts making cuts. There are other states besides NY. Finally, please calculate the cost per k-12 student for each state and compare it to law students...again, can you figure out the discrepancy?<br /><br />K-12 cost increases in NY state are largely due to admin and teachers salaries thanks to their powerful unions (Im pro-union but govt employee unions need a few more checks...but thats another argument for another day).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-77699517541616646942012-03-29T05:28:06.247-07:002012-03-29T05:28:06.247-07:00.... Making his own decision.
At what point are t....... Making his own decision.<br /><br />At what point are the students responsible? I am genuinely curious about people's opinions on this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-2448136515535134242012-03-29T05:25:51.541-07:002012-03-29T05:25:51.541-07:00I agree. Buit the thing is - if they won't li...I agree. Buit the thing is - if they won't listen at some point it is their own fault. I mentioned before the guy on TLS who posted " I hear your warning and I'm ignoring it.". This was after he had been told quite clearly that he was about to job off a cliff. <br /><br />So is he responsible? He was adamant aboutAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-54429022196765380092012-03-29T04:43:34.958-07:002012-03-29T04:43:34.958-07:00The penalty for those with "special snowflake...The penalty for those with "special snowflake" syndrome should be that they can't attend law school. The penalty should not be 200K of non-dischargable debt and a lifetime of underemployment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-46941449468992298962012-03-29T03:50:45.586-07:002012-03-29T03:50:45.586-07:00Bored3l
You must not have spent time on TLS. Thi...Bored3l<br /><br />You must not have spent time on TLS. This girls view is known as the "special snowflake" attitude. If your point was that college grads are not sophisticated consumers, I completely agree. Whether it is their own fault? She might be an example of why it is their own fault. They don't seek information. They don't study for the LSAT. But they have always overcome adversity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-56720787297886648692012-03-29T03:40:04.032-07:002012-03-29T03:40:04.032-07:00I posted this in response to the guy above who cla...I posted this in response to the guy above who claimed that k-12 education hasn't gotten more expensive each year. Simple answer-- raising taxes meant that it has gone up.<br /><br />Also note that k-12 private education has risen significantly over the past 20 years. There are no government loans for this, but it becomes a factor of what the market can bear. Private schools raise tuition by a few thousand dollars every year in new York city. They have no problem filling seats due to the private wealth in the city. But the point is the same, k-12 has gone up.<br /><br />I agree this gas nothing to do with the greed of law schools (and private undergrads- I'm looking at you Columbia) who have also been happy to push the limit on what the market will bear.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-11699559799858277722012-03-29T03:18:54.216-07:002012-03-29T03:18:54.216-07:00Where is lawprof? He didn't post yesterday?
...Where is lawprof? He didn't post yesterday?<br /><br />By the way, the small town in upstate new York where my son goes to school is desperate to control taxes. This place has been anti- development since the 60s and voted out any proposal that would have brought in light industry tax revenue. People fund the school system based on the independent school tax. The property taxes are so high it is ridiculous. People won't buy a house where the taxes are so high. <br /><br />The school board in this town is incompetent. They tried to float a huge bond issue 3 years ago in the face of the recession. When that failed they threatened to close one school, then the head of the school board was arrested for dealing marijuana. Now they want to spend just under a million dollars to buy a piece of real property because it is near the school.<br /><br />The reason k-12 education hasn't gone up is that, at least in new york state, the school tax on real property went up every year. It isn't reasonable to say that k -12 education hasn't cost more each year.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-86276218854822157742012-03-28T22:01:35.866-07:002012-03-28T22:01:35.866-07:00State funding cuts are good.State funding cuts are good.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-6874628694234439842012-03-28T21:03:32.730-07:002012-03-28T21:03:32.730-07:00TIL that troll = disagreeing with your stupid repe...TIL that troll = disagreeing with your stupid repetetive endless point.<br /><br />@8:56 - stop trolling please.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-72096336363854078252012-03-28T20:56:44.898-07:002012-03-28T20:56:44.898-07:00OK Bruh, I concede that there is one troll here wh...OK Bruh, I concede that there is one troll here who doesn't agree with your argument about causation. But even the troll agrees that state funding cuts are bad, even if he doesn't want to admit that they are a cause of rising tuition. <br /><br />I haven't seen a single person (at least in the responses to this post - I'll admit that some such people exist) arguing that state funding cuts are good, or arguing that an unregulated free market would solve this problem. When these people show up, feel free to release your wrath, but it's not productive to accuse your potential allies of being these people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-906402219255157142012-03-28T20:27:58.483-07:002012-03-28T20:27:58.483-07:00"By the way- you and others added the "w..."By the way- you and others added the "whole thing" part once you, I guess, realized you couldn't completely ignore the argument I making. Not everyone agrees with what I am saying. Hence, comments like this:<br /><br />"YOU ARE BLAMING THE RISE IN TUITION ON THE CUTS IN STATE FUNDING. I HAVE JUST EXPLAINED TO YOU HOW THIS WAS NOT TRUE VIA THE PUBLIC SCHOOL EXAMPLE. ""<br /><br />WHAT?!?!?! Bruh, you are a tiresome fool. You are impossible to have a decent conversation. @6:30 has you pegged completely. <br /><br />How can law schools raise tution after the cuts in state funding without student loans?!? Where would the money come from? Again, HOW COME K-ELEMENTARY SCHOOL HASN'T BECOME MORE EXPENSIVE? Why? <br /><br />Budget cuts and non-dischargeable student debt are two very different issues, you ideological dope.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-1897217885102143312012-03-28T20:10:34.917-07:002012-03-28T20:10:34.917-07:00630
I directly proved everything that I was told ...630<br /><br />I directly proved everything that I was told was not the case. What were you going to say other than admit part of it is true even as one of you still direclty said I was wrong. And now, you are acting like a 14 year old by using a different name for me other than the one that I actually use as a screen name. Perhaps not knowing the significance of the screen name or perhaps because, and this is more likely, you are full of shit and when cornered about your fucked up thinking, got nothing. I notice you whine about solutions, but I point out why you don't have any, and you move on to name calling rather than responding to how doign the same old shit you have done for 30 decades as a society will change a thing. And you keep saying "you agree" does not mean shit if "your agreement" amounts to "but we are too chicken shit to fight for that because we don't believe it will happen." Once again, there's no diference between you and a conservative other than you are too chicken shit to prevent conservatives from doing what they want. Good luck with that approach. I get hte feeling you are going to need it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-77419344674503902352012-03-28T20:06:20.253-07:002012-03-28T20:06:20.253-07:00559
Read the comments here. They don't all ag...559<br /><br />Read the comments here. They don't all agree. Its really strange at this point where I can quote directly from someone saying they don't agree, and you will post "everyone agrees with you" At some point, the problem is you are living in you own reality and ain't much I can post to get you to stop doing that.<br /><br />Bruh RabbitAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-82901289787478680182012-03-28T20:02:22.843-07:002012-03-28T20:02:22.843-07:007:41: I (and she) meant international law as most ...7:41: I (and she) meant international law as most 0Ls envision it, doing war crimes trials in the Hague, saving pristine rainforests from evil corporations, or brokering the Israel-Palestine peace agreement. She certainly will not enter that kind of law from the schools she was admitted to. <br /><br />I came away from the conversation guardedly optimistic that she would at least IBR for a year, properly study for the LSAT, and reapply. I am anxious, however, because she was unfamiliar with or simply unable to seek out even the most basic information like the news stories, law blogs, or lawsuits. This is interesting, as some have claimed that the information is very easily obtainable and that anyone who attends law school now is officially on notice.bored3Lnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-59852873091605911442012-03-28T19:41:01.103-07:002012-03-28T19:41:01.103-07:00I would think that seeing multiple unemployed grad...I would think that seeing multiple unemployed graduates from the school she wants to attend would be a fair warning. You have given her information. If she still wants to go, she will go. <br /><br />Well, there such a thing as "international law", public and private. Whether the person you met on the train will get to be involved in it any way is another matter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-42422089569487397922012-03-28T19:30:11.508-07:002012-03-28T19:30:11.508-07:006:55 I agree, and that's why I'm sure the ...6:55 I agree, and that's why I'm sure the appeals court will uphold the MTD on different grounds.<br /><br />7:24 Although she was more informed than her classmates, this person still had no idea what IBR was. Her financial aid counselor did not even tell her. She had no clue that "international law" was concocted law prof bullshit. She'd never heard of ATL or TLS, never mind this site or JDU. Never heard of the lawsuits. She and her mother were, with incomes below 30K, able to take on about 100K of UG debt. She told me her mother marveled at how easy it was.bored3Lnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-86688262973466918612012-03-28T19:24:13.702-07:002012-03-28T19:24:13.702-07:00I don't think there is a realistic prospect of...I don't think there is a realistic prospect of carving legal education out of the overall problem of the cost of higher education in general. I would say that she has a lot more information than many people have. You say she actually knows people who are in a tough spot after going to the law school she wants to attend. I don't understand the point of agonizing over someone else's choices when they have been given the opportunity to make others.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-42283806065808913652012-03-28T18:55:22.217-07:002012-03-28T18:55:22.217-07:00She's obviously not a reasonable person acting...She's obviously not a reasonable person acting reasonably, but it would hard to argue that she made her choice by relying on misleading job placement statistics posted by the school. Some people just can't be saved - or can only be saved as a consequence of a complete change in the structure of providing and funding legal education.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com