tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post8222281002947051972..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: Law professor solicits fraud as a recruitment strategyLawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger107125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-18726118454770687032012-03-24T11:40:03.844-07:002012-03-24T11:40:03.844-07:00Amen 12:32. There are a lot of very misinformed c...Amen 12:32. There are a lot of very misinformed comments here. Seriously, 95 percent of the comments on here don't even know what they are talking about. Please please do more diligent research before commenting all you so called policy experts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-85392798335893048422011-10-13T13:30:41.748-07:002011-10-13T13:30:41.748-07:00Guess the good law professor will soon be advocati...Guess the good law professor will soon be advocating what 1:19 says, so they can stay on the government student loan teat as long as possible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-89238597906685540312011-10-13T13:19:06.581-07:002011-10-13T13:19:06.581-07:00The solution is pretty simple. Open a solo practic...The solution is pretty simple. Open a solo practice, go on IBR, and under report your income (if you have any). Just don't be greedy about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-50287894873242498342011-10-13T12:32:52.483-07:002011-10-13T12:32:52.483-07:00I am a lawyer about five years out with a lot of s...I am a lawyer about five years out with a lot of student loan debt. This comment thread brings home the point that lack of knowledge certainly does not prevent a significant number of people reading this blog from commenting. How about before commenting about IBR, some of you people actually do some research on it? You know, research? One of those things you were supposedly taught to do in law school?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-82233130802005029102011-10-13T12:18:43.180-07:002011-10-13T12:18:43.180-07:0012:05pm - your points are well taken. Jobs everyw...12:05pm - your points are well taken. Jobs everywhere are in short supply and the SEC is no exception. But you can't get the job if you don't apply and openings occur regularly, if only from attrition these days. Note also that some independent agencies are "self-funded" and not subject to Congressional budget authority [FDIC for example]. <br /><br />I only posted originally to point out the fed government's loan repayment benefit and to highlight what I think is a great place to work. <br /><br />10:03pm above suggested that somehow becoming a CPA and a CFA takes a lot of years and that's true to a point: if you pass the CPA exam right out of school, then work for a CPA firm while you study for the CFA exam [which is purely a self-study program], you can finish in three years if you pass each of the 3 levels in a timely manner. I worked at a CPA firm for five years before law school.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-2046118044697673492011-10-13T12:05:57.902-07:002011-10-13T12:05:57.902-07:00In response to the SEC guy, that's great for y...In response to the SEC guy, that's great for you, but salaries at the financial agencies are MUCH higher than the regular GS scale that the rest of us humble non-finance gubmint lawyers labor under. Also, loan repayment programs only exist at a few agencies. And, within 10 years at any agency you're going to be at a GS-14, which earns you over 100 grand and makes you ineligible for IBR unless your debt is some ludicrously high amount (mine is currently at 135k and I DO NOT qualify for IBR). Not to mention that government jobs are currently in very short supply and hiring freezes are in effect at most agencies. It's irresponsible to encourage anyone to go to law school based on the idea that they can "always get a government job." Not true. And government jobs will not easily pay off your debt. Don't believe the hype. (the part about good benefits and working hours is true, though).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-4260272384085189312011-10-13T05:12:41.102-07:002011-10-13T05:12:41.102-07:00So, anyone have any luck posting comments under Pr...So, anyone have any luck posting comments under Prof. Taylor's piece?Gilman Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06607416440240634159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-76141023354291912032011-10-13T04:44:48.221-07:002011-10-13T04:44:48.221-07:00The SEC is not on the GS scale, nor is the FDIC - ...The SEC is not on the GS scale, nor is the FDIC - these are independent agencies.<br /> <br />Good grief.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-43378601614931150282011-10-13T01:02:33.275-07:002011-10-13T01:02:33.275-07:00As for cancellation of debt income, there's an...As for cancellation of debt income, there's an insolvency exception in IRC Sec 108. If someone Is on IBR for 25 years, it is likely they will be insolvent right before the<br />discharge. But the exclusion amount is bass on the individual's circumstances.<br /><br />Also, if you live in a community property state and want to take advantage of IBR, make sure your spouse has low income too.Ooinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-68528690266750855272011-10-12T22:03:13.264-07:002011-10-12T22:03:13.264-07:008:03 also claims to be both a CPA and a CFA so 8:0...8:03 also claims to be both a CPA and a CFA so 8:03 is either significantly older than most law grads...or lying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-62244312651919807052011-10-12T21:04:46.201-07:002011-10-12T21:04:46.201-07:00"Clearly, the toughest part is getting the jo..."Clearly, the toughest part is getting the job - especially recently as there are fewer positions and the competition has become remarkably intense."<br /><br />Then the whole point is moot for the vast majority of law school grads who can never obtain such great govt jobs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-7786456623570410372011-10-12T21:00:23.854-07:002011-10-12T21:00:23.854-07:008:03,
I was talking about the salary. I probably ...8:03,<br />I was talking about the salary. I probably should have specified to save you some typing.<br />http://www.opm.gov/oca/11tables/pdf/CHI.pdf<br /><br />You'd have to be a GS-15 step 8 to be clearing 150 unless I'm missing something. I know you move up quick in govt. law jobs but not that quick.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-55511961765187917242011-10-12T20:23:21.639-07:002011-10-12T20:23:21.639-07:00Good article on the negatives of IBR for those cur...Good article on the negatives of IBR for those curious:<br /><br />http://www.forbes.com/2010/05/10/student-loans-safra-leadership-education-bennett.html<br /><br />Also, if you are in default you cannot qualify for IBR. Also, if you voluntarily switch or are disqualified from IBR you are shut out from public loan forgiveness. You automatically switch to a standard loan payment plan and the interest balloons on you. Ouch.<br /><br />http://loanconsolidation.ed.gov/help/faq.htmlDanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15729532031872959652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-9455630315825819852011-10-12T20:03:27.721-07:002011-10-12T20:03:27.721-07:00@7:43pm - I'm not sure what you don't beli...@7:43pm - I'm not sure what you don't believe but the federal employee benefits are standard, including the student loan repayment benefit, as are the hours. Plus, the salaries of most fed employees are public record.<br /><br />Try this link: http://php.app.com/fed_employees10/search.php<br />Or google "federal employee salaries" and go to the data universe site - select the SEC and review the salaries for accountants and attorneys in any location.<br />]Also, try looking at attorney salaries in other financial regulatory agencies and you will see that the SEC does not offer the highest attorney salaries, e.g. FDIC.]<br />New attorneys hire in at grade 11 [these are new grads and my sense is that in recent years the SEC has been hiring experienced lawyers rather than new grads]. Experienced attorneys typically hire in at grade 13 [sometimes even 14] for enforcement investigator positions and at grade 16 for trial attorney positions. [I'm speaking of the enforcement division but note that other divisions of the SEC also hire attorneys.] Clearly, the toughest part is getting the job - especially recently as there are fewer positions and the competition has become remarkably intense. Although I do have a T14 law degree, I think being a CPA and CFA really helped get me an interview and ultimately the job. <br /><br />Anyway, there's no "BS" involved and it's a great place to work, especially since I've got enough seniority now to weather a significant RIF should that occur.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-25865188364556326632011-10-12T19:43:48.553-07:002011-10-12T19:43:48.553-07:00I call bullshit on 7:30.I call bullshit on 7:30.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-65730395781919502992011-10-12T19:31:28.276-07:002011-10-12T19:31:28.276-07:00Ah, my apologies. The receptivity of commenters on...Ah, my apologies. The receptivity of commenters on this blog to honest, relevant questions really never ceases to amaze me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-45554179047027913122011-10-12T19:30:22.056-07:002011-10-12T19:30:22.056-07:00Some agencies of the fed govt offer a student loan...Some agencies of the fed govt offer a student loan repayment benefit. I work at the SEC [five years out of law school] and the limit is $10k/year up to $60k. It's a great benefit for recent grads. [After next year's loan repayment benefit, I will debt free and very relieved.] Obviously, there is a federal salary freeze for the foreseeable future but there is intermittent hiring in all SEC offices - especially as retirements occur. For the uninitiated, note that govt salaries cannot compete with BigLaw [I'm at just over $150k/yr in Chicago] but the hours rarely exceed 40/wk, telework is routine, and the benefits are solid. Most importantly, my colleagues are amazing and the work is fantastic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-13506836616718383032011-10-12T19:22:03.165-07:002011-10-12T19:22:03.165-07:006:37,
In the time it took you to write that you co...6:37,<br />In the time it took you to write that you could have just googled it. It's not that hard.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-70602815490076574262011-10-12T18:37:16.964-07:002011-10-12T18:37:16.964-07:00Question: Don't you have to make an extraordin...Question: Don't you have to make an extraordinarily LOW salary to even qualify for IBR? I attended a loan repayment "seminar" at my law school a few years back, and I seem to remember that the financial aid woman who was leading the meeting set some really hideous figure as the amount that might trigger it. Like, $38K low. <br /><br />She also advised us all that we'd probably want to avoid marriage, or at least filing joint tax returns should we marry, as that would factor into the repayment.<br /><br />Luckily, I made it out of law school without loans, but I find it unthinkable that a person making $42K (I'm making $45) could be left out in the cold. It's a very negligible salary, all told.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-74413149973639696672011-10-12T17:46:07.544-07:002011-10-12T17:46:07.544-07:00I think it's worth mentioning that the employm...I think it's worth mentioning that the employment problems with law grads extends beyond the current recession. When I graduated in 2000, many of my peers had a hard time getting a job. More importantly, very few could get good paying jobs. <br /><br />The scam has been going on for a very long time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-55618392154140508572011-10-12T15:37:56.750-07:002011-10-12T15:37:56.750-07:00And the kind of position that pays $45K will likel...And the kind of position that pays $45K will likely not be available to you in that area of the country.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-70297301848013645892011-10-12T15:26:43.234-07:002011-10-12T15:26:43.234-07:00@ 3:16-
You can most certainly get a mortgage on ...@ 3:16-<br /><br />You can most certainly get a mortgage on $45k income (or less), especially in parts of the country where there was no housing bubble and housing is still very affordable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-17389880888218223452011-10-12T15:16:59.955-07:002011-10-12T15:16:59.955-07:00Tdennnis:
I'm not defending the guy that's...Tdennnis:<br />I'm not defending the guy that's encouraging people to go on IBR. That's clearly a foolish purchase decision. My only point is that being on IBR isn't the end of your life as some people on here seem to think.<br /><br />If you're income is 45K per year you can save up enough money to buy the car for cash. Maybe not a brand new car, maybe one that's two or three years old, that's life. If you're income is 45K a year you probably wouldn't be able to buy a home even without the debt.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-49014324406731700712011-10-12T15:13:23.672-07:002011-10-12T15:13:23.672-07:00"But I guess it does not really matter, what&..."But I guess it does not really matter, what's a 1000 dollars when you are already 100000+ in debt.<br /><br />It's a thousand dollars."<br /><br />Its actually a lot more when you take into account that interest will have to be paid on it over 10 years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-1689919165820510162011-10-12T14:47:38.516-07:002011-10-12T14:47:38.516-07:00To the person that doesn't believe IBR is very...To the person that doesn't believe IBR is very harmful to one's life:<br /><br />You probably will never be able to buy the leading accoutrement to a middle class life, a house. The ability to get a mortgage is based upon your FICO score. Right now, and for at least the foreseeable future, one needs at least a 700 score to obtain a mortgage. There are no sub-prime mortgages anymore. Your FICO score is calculated not just on whether you pay your debts on time, but your ratio of total debt to income. If your student loan interest is causing a debt mountain of 200K, 300K, 400K, etc. to accrue and your income is 45K a year, your FICO score is probably going to be in 550 to 650 range (according to my banker friend). Can you be happy without buying a home? Probably. Can you be happy having to pay 18% interest to buy a car? I guess. Can you be happy operating your life without much credit to help over the rough spots? Maybe. But why would you want to, if you don’t have to? And why would you want to encourage someone to do so, if they don’t have to?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01659995537790248686noreply@blogger.com