tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post7866394320778560676..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: Nice peopleLawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger152125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-47347898195485788442012-04-13T09:24:34.415-07:002012-04-13T09:24:34.415-07:00"Cameron" and "Abigail"
You..."Cameron" and "Abigail" <br /><br />You wag !!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-18770559934424262332012-04-08T17:48:40.521-07:002012-04-08T17:48:40.521-07:00The thing that is so disturbing about all of this ...The thing that is so disturbing about all of this is the University of Michigan Law School and the University of Colorado Law School are owned, operated and managed by the States of Michigan and Colorado, respectively. They are longstanding institutions of their respective states, are funded by taxpayer dollars, and are oerseen by their respective state legislatures. They are not business enterprises and they really are not supposed to make a profit.<br /><br />So why do these state instutitions engage in massive fraud? Why do they feel compelled to mislead young adults into making career decisions they will regret for the rest of their lives? How does this behavior in any way, shape or form serve the public interests which caused their respective state governmens to establish, fund and administer these institutions?<br /><br />Most people do not expect their state governmens to lie through their teeth to encourage them to obtain services they do not want, they do not need, they cannot use and they cannot afford.<br /><br />If state run law schools want to print lies in glossy brochures, it would seem they should do so without relying upon support from the state. They should vacate their state owned premises, negotiate with their faculties for market rates of pay and otherwise operate without the benefit of taxpayer support and dollars.<br /><br />As long as they are state institutions, they should be expected to act like state institutions. At the very least, faculty at these institutions should not be paid more than the governors of their respective states -- or more than that received by the judges employed by the state.High Plains Lawyerhttp://yahoo.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-70172369992710229772012-04-07T12:17:09.088-07:002012-04-07T12:17:09.088-07:00@8:22 a.m.:
(and yes, the consequences can be rea...@8:22 a.m.:<br /><br /><i>(and yes, the consequences can be real - you are doing undue damage to one school that has actually been among the MOST transparent)</i><br /><br />The most transparent law school can take its place of honor next to the tallest midget and smartest Kardashian sister. With that out of the way, Michigan told NALP that 8 of its students were taking advantage of a program which in reality 75 were. Prospective students are impressed with representations that Michigan Law makes to NALP and USNWR indicating an employment rate at or above 90%, yet Michigan Law makes no effort to clarify that a fifth of them are employed in a minimum wage program to perform full-time legal work through the university. In addition, the fact of reporting median salaries allows Michigan Law to emphasize the financial outcomes experienced by its most successful 50.1%, while the remainder are hidden from NALP and USNWR's view. That is to say, hidden from the sources that prospective law students trust to tell them the facts they need to assess whether $150k+ of non-dischargeable debt is a good idea for them.<br /><br />Part of the bullshit that law schools hide behind is that Excellence Will Invariably Triumph, and any student who stupidly took Hofstra Law or Ave Maria Law at their word deserves what they got because they were not worthy of real law schools like Michigan Law. In that sense, Michigan Law is absolutely the right school to attack, because its outcomes are equally terrible for a significant minority of its students and Michigan Law has done its best to disguise this without lying outright.Morse Code for Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15533833808776688455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-80856048393292850872012-04-06T19:16:06.155-07:002012-04-06T19:16:06.155-07:00**typo above: "it's hard to view (and exc...**typo above: "it's hard to view (and excuse) the statements coming..."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-68325463159600873752012-04-06T19:14:33.199-07:002012-04-06T19:14:33.199-07:00This has been a great week for willful ignorance a...This has been a great week for willful ignorance and blatant mendacity! <br /><br />From a law professor at George Mason (because we know that their graduates are doing SO well): Now Here’s a Bad Idea–Allowing Discharge of Student Loans in Bankruptcy<br /><br />http://volokh.com/2012/04/06/now-heres-a-bad-idea-allowing-discharge-of-student-loans-in-bankruptcy/<br /><br />When law professors state students "have a huge future potential income stream. Bankruptcy would allow them to shed the debts, keep their meager assets, and then protect all of that future revenue stream."<br /><br />It's hard to excuse view the statements coming from any pro-law school institution as "nice people" who misspeak.<br /><br />You have law professors spewing this nonsense and "sophisticated consumers" are at fault for believing it. <br /><br />(Guess you can always issue a press release call it hearsay and take it back later, eh?)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-51120356747628477212012-04-06T11:39:16.645-07:002012-04-06T11:39:16.645-07:00@ 8:42 am. I am trying to figure out where you fa...@ 8:42 am. I am trying to figure out where you factor in the comprehensive employment statistucs on the UM website. "Other professional"?<br /><br />@ 8:29 pm. I had the same reaction as you, as in I saw an "upward trajectory" of placement based on my left-right reading assumption. <br />I recognize that UM has posted more information than other schools, but it still doesn't sit right with me that on one page the career services office boasts that the class of 2010 has a 98.3 percent employment rate, and moreover that the school is "a launching pad to the nation's premier private law firms," yet the signs of a downward trajectory are clearly there even in their own numbers, though they will never acknowledge it. For example:<br /># of UM graduates in "JD preferred" positions:<br />3 (2009)<br />14 (2010)<br />44 (2011)<br /><br />* JD preferred = "management consulting, investment banking, real estate, legal jobs overseas, et al."<br /><br /># of UM grads unemployed yet seeking a job:<br />2 (2009)<br />4 (2010)<br />13 (2011)<br /><br />But most tellingly, 25%ile of salary for UM graduates: <br />$120,000 (2009)<br />$110,000 (2010)<br />$62,647 (2011) <br /><br />This halving of the 25th percentile salary has happened despite the fact that for the class of 2010, 84% of UM grads were employed by firms of 251+ attorneys, i.e. not "shitlaw" jobs. Contract work at "the nationa's perimier private law firms"? I also note that the % of class for which salary is known has been decreasing as well: 84% (2009), 65% (2010), 52% (2011). I might assume that since first-year associate salaries are basically a matter of public record at large firms, and because any school has an interest in "knowing" the best outcomes of its graduates salary wise, that the top numbers are still present in this data set.<br /><br />But everything's fine!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-72111510760136379362012-04-06T11:29:31.001-07:002012-04-06T11:29:31.001-07:00This once again seems to have put it in a place of...This once again seems to have put it in a place of being the most obvious law university in the nation.<br /><br /><a href="http://gruber-law.com/" rel="nofollow">auto accident attorney milwaukee</a>grubertallyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06511596684416399711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-59178252938072737212012-04-06T09:28:05.375-07:002012-04-06T09:28:05.375-07:00Campos could be the only Prof in the country who i...Campos could be the only Prof in the country who is actually helping graduates. So in that respect, he is probably the only one who deserves his check.<br /><br />I hope he buys himself something nice. Maybe some rims?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-86508949658344146312012-04-06T09:22:58.098-07:002012-04-06T09:22:58.098-07:00Come on Campos. At least have some integrity in y...Come on Campos. At least have some integrity in your attacks on law schools. Are you getting off on the hero worship or the nice tidy handjobs you're getting in these comments? Don't attack Dean Zearfoss' salary when you're making something similar, profiting from the system you're bitching about, and having heavily indebted law students pay for your plane tickets. I don't see you in a rush to devote a portion of your bloated paycheck to the unemployed graduates of your TTT.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-14079143426329663212012-04-06T09:21:47.103-07:002012-04-06T09:21:47.103-07:00@8.42 - And you are counted as a success.@8.42 - And you are counted as a success.Gilman Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06607416440240634159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-63489097371559749402012-04-06T09:16:57.523-07:002012-04-06T09:16:57.523-07:00You just gotta love how Campos has all these law s...You just gotta love how Campos has all these law school establishment puppets dancing! About time an insider exposes these phonies for what they really are.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-39577542589123208682012-04-06T08:52:30.786-07:002012-04-06T08:52:30.786-07:00Putting up a front of being transparent is not equ...Putting up a front of being transparent is not equal to being so...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-34772059807387115082012-04-06T08:42:36.023-07:002012-04-06T08:42:36.023-07:00I graduated Michigan Law 2010, and passed the bar ...I graduated Michigan Law 2010, and passed the bar in my state. I was a recipient of the post-graduation stipend. And, I'm currently working for a staffing agency, doing data entry for $12.00/hr, with no other current prospects.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-44757246725973436262012-04-06T08:39:57.568-07:002012-04-06T08:39:57.568-07:00Guilty until proven innocent, I see.Guilty until proven innocent, I see.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-34675381481399910102012-04-06T08:37:29.362-07:002012-04-06T08:37:29.362-07:006:53 and 7:39 AM again here; better judgment appar...6:53 and 7:39 AM again here; better judgment apparently prevailed, as my two comments from yesterday have just now been posted to the Michigan blog, as have several others critical of Dean Zearfoss.<br /><br />Credit where due: Michigan is trying harder re: transparency than most places. Criticism where due: Michigan is becoming transparent only in response to outrage and outcry, not out of any desire to help current or prospective students.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-35523654085587817732012-04-06T08:31:47.562-07:002012-04-06T08:31:47.562-07:00@8:22 I bet the Emperor's garments look except...@8:22 I bet the Emperor's garments look exceptionally well-tailored to you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-18932625092476499452012-04-06T08:22:29.640-07:002012-04-06T08:22:29.640-07:00This has almost become an instance of hurting futu...This has almost become an instance of hurting future Michigan alums by defaming the school<br /><br />Michigan's response is reasonable, and this is one of the weakest arguments Campos has made, especially since it is based on a fallacy (according to people who were at the admitted students weekend)<br /><br />Focus on taking down the law schools that are truly scamming students, and not simply attacking one law school (and yes, the consequences can be real - you are doing undue damage to one school that has actually been among the MOST transparent)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-20956821693829196002012-04-06T08:16:08.424-07:002012-04-06T08:16:08.424-07:00WOW @8:12, are you a contributor to The Onion?WOW @8:12, are you a contributor to The Onion?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-61603740216171973092012-04-06T08:12:45.789-07:002012-04-06T08:12:45.789-07:007:51,
I consider myself a sympathizer but there ...7:51, <br /><br />I consider myself a sympathizer but there is a significant difference between a law student with a 2.8/149 and a 3.8/169.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-84714688746560196422012-04-06T07:51:42.636-07:002012-04-06T07:51:42.636-07:00I'm going to go out on a limb here...
All law...I'm going to go out on a limb here...<br /><br />All law schools teach the same thing in the same way. Having taken classes at multiple schools of varying rankings, I can see, from experience, law schools are no different from each other. The only difference is the cohort of students.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-77318219560965622682012-04-06T07:46:24.620-07:002012-04-06T07:46:24.620-07:00Keep fighting the good fight Prof. Campos!Keep fighting the good fight Prof. Campos!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-15065213977936208632012-04-06T07:39:29.111-07:002012-04-06T07:39:29.111-07:007:20 am, I agree that the refusal to post critical...7:20 am, I agree that the refusal to post critical comments suggests not only fear, but dishonesty, on the part of Zearfoss and Michigan. The ironic thing is that in my (unposted) comment about Zearfoss's blog posting, I actually stated that unlike Campos, I didn't believe that she'd deliberately intended to mislead her audience at the accepted-students seminar. <br /><br />Now, however, Zearfoss just looks like Ann Arbor's version of the Iraqi information minister.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-79775187129769937222012-04-06T07:20:32.896-07:002012-04-06T07:20:32.896-07:00At least this blog has the dignity to not censor i...At least this blog has the dignity to not censor its responses. I have personally posted three responses to Dean Z's explanation, and not one - not one! - has been approved for publication on that blog over at Michigan.<br /><br />They are clearly spinning this now, and using their admissions blog as a means to make it look like everyone agrees with them and everybody thinks that Campos is a fraud.<br /><br />Surely that is the sign of a dishonest player?<br /><br />There is just too much evidence, across the board, for law schools to continue claiming that they don't know what's going on. Just too much.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-79993668364231641412012-04-06T06:58:25.779-07:002012-04-06T06:58:25.779-07:00Mr. Campos. Please keep this blog going. You are m...Mr. Campos. Please keep this blog going. You are making a difference.<br /><br />Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-80804030514524712452012-04-06T06:53:57.362-07:002012-04-06T06:53:57.362-07:00Whatever one thinks of the arguments made by Campo...Whatever one thinks of the arguments made by Campos and Dean Sarah Zearfoss, here's a revealing contrast. Early yesterday afternoon, I posted two comments to the "Dean Z." blog; one comment was critical of a statement made by Dean Zearfoss in her blog posting, and the other comment was critical of another commenter's remark. My comments didn't contain any profanity or inflammatory language, yet almost 24 hours later, neither one has cleared Dean Zearfoss's review and been publicly posted, although several comments supportive of her and her school have subsequently been posted.<br /><br />I'm embarrassed for Sarah Zearfoss and for the University of Michigan Law School that she's afraid to permit herself to be criticized further -- sunlight is the best disinfectant, Dean Z., and an academic ought to be zealous in her support of free expression.<br /><br />Meanwhile, Campos doesn't seem inclined to stifle or censor dissenting opinions. That fact doesn't mean that his arguments are right, but it does suggest that he's in the business of finding truth, not hiding it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com