tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post7520255197207373560..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: You cannot be seriousLawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger86125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-6216286548875814012013-02-22T11:43:18.079-08:002013-02-22T11:43:18.079-08:00The Extreme Q unlike the volcano comes with a glas...The Extreme Q unlike the volcano comes with a glass <br />oil diffuser than can be used for aromatherapy and also pot pouri heating and releasing <br />steam. If you look really hard, you can find the benefits that the Volcano Vaporizer provides <br />you and you can be sure that with the help of a Volcano Vaporizer you can get a great effect and you can have a healthy effect to smoking as well.<br />Now that you simply understand that benefits of a vaporizer it is excellent to decide on which kind of <a href="http://silversurfervaporizer.best-vaporizers.net/" rel="nofollow">Vaporizer</a> you want in your kitty.<br /><i>my webpage</i> :: <b><a href="http://silversurfervaporizer.best-vaporizers.net/" rel="nofollow">Vaporizer</a></b>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-36210490201622348072013-02-21T14:19:18.923-08:002013-02-21T14:19:18.923-08:00That's why the next piece of advice is so impo...That's why the next piece of advice is so important:. The WISPR vaporizer is made of the best and most inert materials like polycarbonate and the source of heating is butane gas. The habituated smokers should be slowly persuaded that they can do it and that it is nothing impossible.<br /><br />Stop by my website - <a href="http://best-vaporizer.net/" rel="nofollow">pocket vaporizers</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-56627176442210661612013-02-21T07:48:29.033-08:002013-02-21T07:48:29.033-08:00If you are going to purchase a vaporizer soon, and...If you are going to purchase a vaporizer soon, and $500 or extra is no difficulty for you, get a <br /><a href="http://volcanovaporizer.best-vaporizers.net/" rel="nofollow">volcano vaporizer</a> today.<br />There are one or two different systems of inhalation to make a choice from when on the lookout for your vaporizer.<br />It provides the user with the best and the healthiest experience which can make you feel proud about yourself to switch to <br />iolite.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-54695711193126028792013-02-20T17:06:27.384-08:002013-02-20T17:06:27.384-08:00The mist includes the required moisture that
basi...The mist includes the required moisture that <br />basically works in relieving child from symptoms by soothing irritated tissues in the mouth and the nose, reducing dryness <br />and calming coughs. Wow, so many of us today know what a vaporizer is and we all have a handy dandy vaporizer with us.<br /><br />Besides this, the boiling point of aluminum is considered to be around 2519C and hence <br />it can't radiate any such items or substances.<br /><br />Here is my web-site: <a href="http://portablevaporizer.best-vaporizers.net/" rel="nofollow">portable vaporizer</a><br /><i>My site</i> :: <b><a href="http://portablevaporizer.best-vaporizers.net/" rel="nofollow">portable vaporizer</a></b>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-19425824775587623602012-10-16T12:50:25.427-07:002012-10-16T12:50:25.427-07:00http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leiter/2012/10/...http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leiter/2012/10/post-tenure-review-moves-slowly-at-coloradoor-whatever-happened-to-paul-campos.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-87315421913731207192012-02-29T21:22:16.553-08:002012-02-29T21:22:16.553-08:00I remember my 3rdyear of law school fondly. I rare...I remember my 3rdyear of law school fondly. I rarely went to class. I played a lot of cards during the day in the student locker room. At night I went to the many public houses around campus, meet many fine ladies with interests that coincided with mine, and spent many memorable evenings with them. Ah sweet bird of youth.<br /><br />OTOH, I would have been perfectly willing to save a years tuition.Fat Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09554029467445000453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-2054942394857480042012-02-28T19:49:55.006-08:002012-02-28T19:49:55.006-08:00You really are an obsessive little freak.You really are an obsessive little freak.LawProfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-64781653357847592172012-02-28T18:59:56.701-08:002012-02-28T18:59:56.701-08:00Do you mean Dan? Neil? Paul? Any of the other p...Do you mean Dan? Neil? Paul? Any of the other people who actually hate you? But why are you protecting dybbuk? He's a sicko. What if he hurts someone?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-26943401193610692512012-02-28T17:14:38.919-08:002012-02-28T17:14:38.919-08:00Cut it out Brian.Cut it out Brian.LawProfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-89270618400385119102012-02-28T16:28:34.926-08:002012-02-28T16:28:34.926-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-16130072292230598682012-02-28T13:18:27.226-08:002012-02-28T13:18:27.226-08:00Bankruptcy is not a magic wand. The idea that bigl...Bankruptcy is not a magic wand. The idea that biglawyers and others making 100K will be able to game the system is laughable- even people making 60K probably wouldn't be able to. It's basically more "welfare queen" rhetoric- screw the massive numbers of people who would be helped by a program because of a few people who exploit it.bored3Lnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-31343217481700070732012-02-28T12:49:53.743-08:002012-02-28T12:49:53.743-08:00Well, I'm afraid they are serious- the "i...Well, I'm afraid they are serious- the "incompetent turds"!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-67895954764059755952012-02-28T06:51:28.341-08:002012-02-28T06:51:28.341-08:00I am commenting on a blog along with other comment...I am commenting on a blog along with other comments that are not in my control, not publishing an article.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-72499348043914557432012-02-28T06:21:05.547-08:002012-02-28T06:21:05.547-08:00@6:00AM - but you still find it s judicious course...@6:00AM - but you still find it s judicious course of action,<br /><br />MacKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-35613788591164867032012-02-28T06:00:11.934-08:002012-02-28T06:00:11.934-08:00@ MacK As to your question, for not any reason tha...@ MacK As to your question, for not any reason that has to do with employment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-68135994287054365422012-02-28T05:40:30.362-08:002012-02-28T05:40:30.362-08:00@ 4:24pm when you say:
"the authors of the p...@ 4:24pm when you say:<br /><br />"the authors of the piece somehow left out their own school, Emory, when discussing schools that have reported that over 90 percent of their grads had employment after 9 months. Why talk about other schools but not your own? You would think that that is where they would start."<br /><br />You are not being very sensible. What you are asking is for two authors who, like Professor Campos here, are already taking a big risk professionally by writing the article (which incidentally no Emory law journal has published) to take the step from a brave move to a literally suicidal move. I am pretty sure that that if they called for the Dean of Emory law school to be jailed - or Professors Campos, Merrit (aka DJM) or Tamanaha called for the Deans of their schools, that would probably be a sufficient disciplinary offence to get them fired, tenure or not. Indeed I suspect there are anti-disparagement provisions in their employment terms. As it is they are "skating close to the edge of the ice"<br /><br />Let me put it another way - why is your posting anonymous ...<br /><br />Were these two professors to be fired or Professors Campos, Tamahana and Merrit would it help or hinder the need for law school reform. Don't confuse backing a cause with suicidal fanaticism.<br /><br />MacKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-41053464217546940572012-02-28T05:33:07.384-08:002012-02-28T05:33:07.384-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-31030081926329164052012-02-28T05:29:53.207-08:002012-02-28T05:29:53.207-08:00@3:31yes, I did suggest full dischargeability unde...@3:31yes, I did suggest full dischargeability under the current Chapter 7 (which does not make it easy) but also suggested that at least Chapter 13, which usually means no-full-discharge but a restructuring with a haircut for the lender certainly makes sense.<br /><br />MacKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-33255954381031616152012-02-28T05:29:20.315-08:002012-02-28T05:29:20.315-08:00Okay, forget the word "tier", which send...Okay, forget the word "tier", which sends the wrong message. I've used it in this discussion, and I should not have. The idea is that law schools should be allowed to experiment with different forms. What people seem most interested in is having schools that focus more on teaching people what some have called "practical skills". The faculty at these types of schools would be comprised of some combination of adjunct practitioners and profs. who would be focused on teaching instead of scholarship. Although I think the estimates of the cost of law review scholarship are bogus, focusing on scholarship does have some cost. Also, it would be interesting to see how much the pool of practitioner-adjuncts could be expanded without, at some point, raising costs. But, in any event, the thinking is that removing those costs, and the cost of small specialized seminars, and other features of research oriented schools, will bring down tuition in those schools. Students who have no interest in traditional model will have a lower cost choice.<br /><br />That does not mean that non-traditional schools will be "bad" schools. The elite schools will keep doing what they do, which includes changing their curricula, partnering with law firms and other employers, and providing clinical opportunities. It just means that all other schools will not be forced to try to mimic them.<br /><br />No, it won't create more jobs for graduates. But this proposal does not address that issue, and does not purport to. It addresses the issue of costs, which is a legitimate concern. The fact is people can speculate all they want. We don't know what will happen with the job situation. In the coming years it could be better, or it could be much, much worse. Several years back, people looking at the numbers could have said ( and would have said if they had an incentive to be overly optimistic) , "Isn't it grand! This is likely to go on forever." And some people thought that, and they were wrong. We could be reversing that story now. Things will decline until there are only 25 legal jobs in the country. <br />There are multiple issues about legal education that need to be addressed. Just because one solution does not solve them all at once, does not mean it's not worthy of consideration.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-76046480599863272122012-02-28T04:24:18.401-08:002012-02-28T04:24:18.401-08:00One of the comments on TaxProf said that the autho...One of the comments on TaxProf said that the authors of the piece somehow left out their own school, Emory, when discussing schools that have reported that over 90 percent of their grads had employment after 9 months. Why talk about other schools but not your own? You would think that that is where they would start.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-3176809173055249682012-02-28T03:31:53.512-08:002012-02-28T03:31:53.512-08:00The commenter at 5:22 urges as policy, the full di...The commenter at 5:22 urges as policy, the full dischargibility in bankruptcy of student loans. That certainly eliminates the burdon of payment for recent law graduates. But what law graduates would use bankruptcy to extinguish their law school indebtedness? The average school loans for law school graduates is almost $100,000. Somewhere near 50% of law graduates never get a job as a lawyer. So 50% of graduates, say 22,500, would quickly file for bankruptcy protection and be discharged. The 35% of of graduates that get some job in law but not biglaw (government, PI, midlaw and below and contract attornies) usually get between $30,000 and $65,000 a year. How many of them would continue to pay $10k-$15k per year for 20+ years when they have an alternative?<br /> The biglaw associates with their $160,000 salaries, would they pay the $30k-$50k that it takes to pay off their law school debts during the normal five year tenure at biglaw? Would the 85% of biglaw associates who do not get a partnership continue to pay on their loans or opt for bankruptcy and a quick discharge? And then there is the Sucker Issue. How many student loan borrowers who would otherwise be inclined to pay their loans, would look around themselves, feel that they were being had and that only fools paid their loans? How long would it be before the cultural meme would be; you go to law school, you graduate, you pass the bar and you discharge your law school loans in bankruptcy? I happened to be briefly practicing bankruptcy law after the enactment of the 1978 Bankruptcy Code when student loans could be discharged and there was a mini gold rush before the loophole was closed. Another question, if a considerable portion of the $4.5 billion in law school loans were immediately being discharged after graduation, how long would congress/the public continue to support loans for law school? How long would they continue to support their dischargibility? If the norm for dealing with student debt became bankruptcy, law school is free. How many students then would go to law school; the current 45,000, 75,000, 100,000, more? What effect would this have on the practice of law? On it's economics? Would the J.D. become the terminal degree for the liberal arts? William OckhamAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-51601198021438065182012-02-28T01:40:13.174-08:002012-02-28T01:40:13.174-08:00Sorry - that was not a law journal article - it is...Sorry - that was not a law journal article - it is an article that no law school journal has risked publishing - I suppose the title "Law School Deans in Jail" not to mention its contents put them off.... but is is pretty meticulous work by two Emory Professors - I am quoting the abstract so everyone can see why it is a "must read":<br /><br />LAW DEANS IN JAIL<br />Morgan Cloud* and George Shepherd**<br /><br /><i>A most unlikely collection of suspects - law schools, their deans, U.S. News & World Report and its employees - may have committed felonies by publishing false information as part of U.S. News' ranking of law schools. The possible federal felonies include mail and wire fraud, conspiracy, racketeering, and making false statements. Employees of law schools and U.S. News who committed these crimes can be punished as individuals, and under federal law the schools and U.S. News would likely be criminally liable for their agents' crimes. Some law schools and their deans submitted false information about the schools' expenditures and their students' undergraduate grades and LSAT scores. Others submitted information that may have been literally true but was misleading. Examples include misleading statistics about recent graduates' employment rates and students' undergraduate grades and LSAT scores. U.S. News itself may have committed mail and wire fraud. It has republished, and sold for profit, data submitted by law schools without verifying the data's accuracy, despite being aware that at least some schools were submitting false and misleading data. U.S. News refused to correct incorrect data and rankings errors and continued to sell that information even after individual schools confessed that they had submitted false information. In addition, U.S. News marketed its surveys and rankings as valid although they were riddled with fundamental methodological errors.</i><br /><br />http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1990746<br /><br />MacKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-86584415342729162162012-02-28T01:33:54.004-08:002012-02-28T01:33:54.004-08:00@7:11 - that is a remarkable law journal article -...@7:11 - that is a remarkable law journal article - one of the few I have read in any recent years that was worth reading. The last section explained something I had long wondered about - how USNWR rankings for law schools and law firms had such a mis-match between my personal knowledge of views in the legal community and their rankings. It turns out that their surveys capture the views of a tiny group and of the surveyed the response rate is lower than 20%, often much lower. Thus for a long time in Washington DC my experience of legal hiring and broad lawyer views of law schools would have ranked Catholic University above American University, but yet Catholic barely moved nor did AU - similarly law firms who most lawyers held in so-so regard - say Howrey (they never recovered from screwing a bunch of their partners early in the life of the firm) ranked very high, while a number of the very high end DC boutiques never rated a mention. The reason was that the survey methodology never met any sort of sensible criteria for reliability.<br /><br />I would add that yet again I have received one of those "Best Law Firm Surveys" which inter alia also solicited us for 1/4 page, 1/2 page and full page advertisements - I round filed it - so I think we won't rank again (sob.) One of the biggest publishers of these surveys approached me years ago to be GC - I'm afraid my describing them as a "vanity press" probably scuppered my chances.<br /><br />MacKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-6272121762011990232012-02-28T00:57:50.211-08:002012-02-28T00:57:50.211-08:00Law school takes three years to teach (poorly) wha...Law school takes three years to teach (poorly) what a bar review course teaches in seven weeks. How is such staggering inefficiency even possible? <br /><br />It is possible because the inefficiency is by design. The law school scam really, really, wants your tuition money--three full years of it. So they play hide the ball-- they assign a bookful of 80 page appellate decisions from which the student really only needs to learn one sentence per case plus a few analytical tests per course -- but the students aren't told that. And the cases in the book are generally the seminal Supreme Court cases where a particular test was formulated for the first time--so the Court is doing logical flips and pirouttes and is barely coherent. (It would be better to assign lower court appellate decisions that came down 10 years after the test was adopted, when the law was well-settled.) <br /><br />Of course, the classroom bullying sessions are meant to make the whole thing seem even more complex and mysterious, and waste more time. Not like an undergrad course where the professor guides you through the thickets.<br /><br />I would junk the whole caselaw/Socratic model and return to the venerable apprenticeship model, updated for these more complicated times. Law is a learn-by-doing profession. Therefore, law school should kick off with a semester long bar-review-type crash course plus a course or two in legal writing and research. Following that, there should be a two-year-long series of clinics and externships to train students to try a case, write an appeal, run an office, and represent clients in several practice areas of the student's choice. These clinics and externships should be taught or supervised by adjunct practitioners paid by the course-- not by tenured professors who have not seen the inside of a courtroom in 20 years, if ever. <br /><br />As for the liberal arts stuff, I truly believe that law students who are receiving real training in how to practice law would also seek out opportunities to sharpen their wits and deepen their understanding of their profession. They could walk over to the undergrad side and audit philosophy, history, and literature courses that bear on the law. They could organize reading and discussion groups on these topics. <br /><br />The apprenticeship model produced Abraham Lincoln, Clarence Darrow, and Justice Robert Jackson. Maybe the 19th century has a few lessons to teach us. <br /><br />dybbukAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-976572031130789542012-02-27T22:13:28.534-08:002012-02-27T22:13:28.534-08:00"Surely, you can't be serious."
&qu..."Surely, you can't be serious."<br /><br />"I am serious. And, don't call me Shirley."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com