tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post7439726294501226287..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: Uncivil proceduresLawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger153125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-17936403436752236872013-02-02T15:57:36.447-08:002013-02-02T15:57:36.447-08:00I'm confused. "Your friend" only wro...I'm confused. "Your friend" only wrote a few too many words but the professor stopped reading at the limit and cutting off those few extra words turned an A-worthy exam into a C+? Or was "your friend" actually counted down for exceeding the word limit (your question makes it sound like the former, which makes no sense)? If no one was aware of the word limit, it seems like many people would have been negatively affected, so landing a C+ would still mean a pretty poor performance although lack of notice is a problem, of course.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-47680206322902683662013-02-02T14:53:24.445-08:002013-02-02T14:53:24.445-08:00When I was in law school, I took a two semester si...When I was in law school, I took a two semester six credit Torts class with an adjunct professor whose specialty was Native American law. As they had recently expanded the number of Torts classes, the school found itself a professor short and ordered this very prestigious professional to teach a One L class in probably the second most important and heavily influential class. <br /><br />She had never practiced anything remotely related to Torts, she had never taught Torts before. She had LESS experience with Torts than I had when I graduated law school. <br /><br />Within three weeks, a coterie of gunners had gone to the Dean of academics to complain. The class was monitored for two weeks and nothing happened. Fortuitously, I stopped paying attention within four weeks and simply read the casebook and taught myself from there. No idea how I managed to get one of the handful of As handed out in that class, but then again, no one had any idea how they were going to score in that class anyhow. The pair of As I scored in that class certainly don't reflect any sort of competence. <br /><br />What is terrifying is that the law school took seven or eight grand from each student for that class for two semesters and did so with a reckless disregard for the actual education of its students considering the lack of qualifications this woman had. It got so ugly by the end of the first semester, I actually felt bad for the woman. But when she rolled back into class in the second semester, there was no sympathy left and only disgust. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-49250793474243618522013-01-31T14:16:25.593-08:002013-01-31T14:16:25.593-08:00Why don't they?
One reason is the ideological...Why don't they?<br /><br />One reason is the ideological lean of most law profs versus the real source of most profitable law firm practice: repesenting big finance, big pharma, big media and big oil.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-87760081448138106802013-01-31T13:10:20.861-08:002013-01-31T13:10:20.861-08:00I wonder sometimes if this is a good idea. Maybe t...I wonder sometimes if this is a good idea. Maybe the accredited law school requirement is a bunch of baloney? I certainly wasn't much impressed with what passed for a "legal educator" at my accredited school. Crux of lawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06572986619859564280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-85762702981112255152013-01-31T13:05:29.700-08:002013-01-31T13:05:29.700-08:00I had a prof who included several questions on an ...I had a prof who included several questions on an exam from a commercial source like "Questions and Answers" (I can't recall the name of the text). A few classmates got miffed. Some complained. It went nowhere. First year, too. It was when my eyes began opening to what was going on around me. Crux of lawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06572986619859564280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-25531620983181932742013-01-31T13:02:27.093-08:002013-01-31T13:02:27.093-08:00FOARP + 1.FOARP + 1.Crux of lawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06572986619859564280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-74477112605337265092013-01-31T09:47:44.966-08:002013-01-31T09:47:44.966-08:00^^^^^^ TITCR^^^^^^ TITCR^^^^^^ TITCRnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-22380051775104601342013-01-31T06:01:10.354-08:002013-01-31T06:01:10.354-08:00Just read the article after arriving at the office...Just read the article after arriving at the office this morning. I agree with 9:22. I'm glad it is getting front page coverage, but I am still disappointed with the content and depth after the first few paragraphs. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-84466672679447717042013-01-31T05:29:47.031-08:002013-01-31T05:29:47.031-08:007:08 PM -- Which of Professor K's colleagues w...7:08 PM -- Which of Professor K's colleagues wrote this "anonymous" post?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-78131753415654969282013-01-31T05:00:26.359-08:002013-01-31T05:00:26.359-08:00"Law school teaches one how to solve problems...<b>"Law school teaches one how to solve problems in a rigorous manner, whether it is how to interpret a statute or how to help ski resorts sell tickets using the Internet, as one of my students is doing. While getting an MBA is one way to become a successful business executive, the plethora of law grads running top companies is evidence that we are training leaders, not just lawyers. Perhaps "leader school" would be a better moniker."</b><br /><br />The really amazing thing is that guys like this don't realise/won't admit that:<br /><br />1) Most students already know how to solve problems before they come to law school. The whole point of exams like the LSAT is that they're supposed to eliminate those who are no good at problem-solving.<br /><br />2) Issue-spotting (i.e., what's taught and tested by law school) is not the same as problem-solving. <br /><br />3) The key skill required for leadership is not problem-solving. It's resource-allocation and people-handling, and, again, these are things people either are or aren't capable of doing before they get to law school and which law school doesn't/can't teach them.<br /><br />4) Three years experience in any given field of business outside the law is more valuable for getting a job in that field of business that three years in law school.<br /><br />5) Many lawyers would make terrible leaders - not least because their profession requires them to indulge in CYA to a degreee that would be poisonous elsewhere in business.<br /><br />6) Law students don't pay 100-200K and spend three years to get a debatable boost in attractiveness to employers outside the legal industry.Gilman Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06607416440240634159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-4166085708529520552013-01-31T04:44:15.397-08:002013-01-31T04:44:15.397-08:00http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/31/education/law-sc...http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/31/education/law-schools-applications-fall-as-costs-rise-and-jobs-are-cut.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130131Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-41374445736006702962013-01-31T00:59:51.994-08:002013-01-31T00:59:51.994-08:00"The second style of question ("go to pa...<b>"The second style of question ("go to page 35...") seems perfectly legitimate to me, if the professor assigned p.35 to the class during the course of the semester. I have done this. It does reward students who practiced by going through the problems in the reading - but why shouldn't they be rewarded?"</b><br /><br />No. Exams are supposed to be a proxy for how people will use their knowledge in unexpected circumstances occuring within a given area of law, not a situation in which people re-gurgitate answers they've already given. Simply awarding students for having a full set of notes (what if I lost the notes in question?) just rewards people for something other than actually knowing their stuff.Gilman Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06607416440240634159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-23207176703903116392013-01-31T00:58:22.701-08:002013-01-31T00:58:22.701-08:00Where do these articles find all these people with...Where do these articles find all these people with good jobs who "dream" of becoming lawyers? The media and their glamorization of law have a lot to answer for.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-68664164606749980182013-01-31T00:19:44.588-08:002013-01-31T00:19:44.588-08:00PS - . . . although, thinking about it, though I ...PS - . . . although, thinking about it, though I never heard of actual sabotage by students there, whilst I was in China I heard of several instances of parents bribing teachers/examiners to switch their dumb kid's grades with those of another kid. However, I'm guessing the China comparison is not exactly one that most Americans would be comfortable with.Gilman Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06607416440240634159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-76782195192590383102013-01-30T22:42:39.451-08:002013-01-30T22:42:39.451-08:00Wonder how much he gets in contributions from priv...Wonder how much he gets in contributions from private educational interests like kaplan.<br /><br />There is no reason for this legislation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-16535599457368866932013-01-30T22:33:05.343-08:002013-01-30T22:33:05.343-08:00Lawmaker: Allow online law school grads to take Az...Lawmaker: Allow online law school grads to take Az bar exam<br /><br />Posted Jan 26, 2013, 5:29 pm<br /><br />Lauren Saria<br />Cronkite News Service<br />Sharon Garshak of Gilbert always dreamed of going to law school, but her job with an aerospace company and having to support herself made that impossible until she found Kaplan University's online Concord Law School.<br /><br />"Despite working full-time at a demanding job, I was able to go to law school and learn the legal principles really well," she said.<br /><br />After graduating in 2011, she passed the California bar exam. But she can't practice in Arizona because the state only allows graduates of law schools accredited by the American Bar Association – a list that includes no online law schools – to sit for the bar exam.<br /><br />"I don't intend on moving to California," she said. "But without being able to take the Arizona bar, I won't be able to help people."<br /><br />A state lawmaker wants to change that.<br /><br />Rep. John Allen, R-Scottsdale, has introduced a bill that would allow graduates of online law schools to take the bar exam and become attorneys.<br /><br />[...]<br /><br />http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/012613_az_bar_exam/lawmaker-allow-online-law-school-grads-take-az-bar-exam/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-19848979503413362062013-01-30T22:14:28.950-08:002013-01-30T22:14:28.950-08:00Simple - edit Wikipedia to sabotage people who rel...Simple - edit Wikipedia to sabotage people who rely on it for their first-pass at any specific subject.<br /><br />Sorry to say this, but sabotaging ones classmates is something I've only ever heard about happening in the US. I'm sure it happens elsewhere, but the US is the only place where it seems a big issue.Gilman Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06607416440240634159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-71482708202858952562013-01-30T22:06:28.535-08:002013-01-30T22:06:28.535-08:00Law school grading is just plain ridiculous. For ...Law school grading is just plain ridiculous. For me it was a real roller coaster ride. I would get an A in one class and a C in the next. It all averaged out to an average, but there was no rhyme or reason to it.<br /><br />Legal employers really do place too much emphasis on grades. But this emphasis was more of a CYA measure than anything else. No one is going to blame the recruiter who hires from the top of the class if the new associate turns out to be a real clown. The firm can always fire him.<br /><br />But anyone who thinks there is any real correlation between law school grades and being a good lawyer is just kidding himself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-12435970557377348702013-01-30T21:22:58.796-08:002013-01-30T21:22:58.796-08:00I feel that I have been waiting for this article f...I feel that I have been waiting for this article for a long time. It doesn't mention the scam that was run for years and transparency as the major factor in applications dropping; and they are wrong, wrong, wrong about demand existing and no oversupply for individual or biglaw ( the exact opposite of what the bankers to the law firms said in their recent report- demand is down and overcapacity is the problem)...<br /><br />Still, I feel as if this train is starting to really pick up steam.<br /><br />Hot damn- we are down to 1970s levels, when their were fewer schools.<br /><br />All I can say is good work fighting the scam to Lawprof, Tamagana and LST. Was it only two years ago that schools were simply ignoring LSTs requests?<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-67456158462103770432013-01-30T21:10:29.975-08:002013-01-30T21:10:29.975-08:00That article on the front page of the New York Tim...That article on the front page of the New York Times tomorrow = law schools are in big trouble.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-86916575586114033722013-01-30T21:07:12.323-08:002013-01-30T21:07:12.323-08:00^^^^^ This. LOL. Be sure to edit and add \\sarcars...^^^^^ This. LOL. Be sure to edit and add \\sarcarsm offAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-51563616353565619142013-01-30T20:32:23.157-08:002013-01-30T20:32:23.157-08:00[rimshot][rimshot]Ell, Oh, Ell. How Drollish it is to Troll.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-35812092862912851842013-01-30T20:16:13.504-08:002013-01-30T20:16:13.504-08:00Live ON the public dole.Live ON the public dole.Just sayin`noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-46244075549438099532013-01-30T20:15:15.315-08:002013-01-30T20:15:15.315-08:00@454,
Not so. Back when the GI Bill was passed, ...@454, <br /><br />Not so. Back when the GI Bill was passed, a college degree would actually take you places. <br /><br />During the last year of the Truman administration, tuition at my law school was apparently $450 per year - and that was for out-of-state students. <br /><br />Back then a degree was a mark of quality because higher ed had standards. Far more people flunked out back then.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-64274470117264537922013-01-30T19:48:57.782-08:002013-01-30T19:48:57.782-08:00Although I might be tempted to concur with your re...Although I might be tempted to concur with your response, several of our finest members of the judiciary have opined that law students are sophisticated consumers.<br /><br />Therefore, anything unfortunate that befalls them is totally their fault. The students should have been aware that a professor may recycle questions from a colleague's exam. The students should obviously have known that if you are paying a professor a six -figure salary to work 10 hours per week, 32 weeks per year, there is no way in the world such a professor could possibly endeavor to actually make up his or her own original exam. Maybe if you paid the professor a seven figure salary, like a partner a large law firm is paid, the professor would be expected to create an original exam. In other words the students are UP THE CREEK WITHOUT A PADDLE!<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com