tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post6966538608484659273..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: Crisis and denialLawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger83125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-27152694266587579442011-12-14T04:38:05.048-08:002011-12-14T04:38:05.048-08:00good information is given to us. it is very useful...good information is given to us. it is very useful for us.best hotel management institute in chandigarhhttp://www.frihm.co.in/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-70203364315247112342011-12-06T10:23:50.889-08:002011-12-06T10:23:50.889-08:00Just to add to what Paul Horwitz says, the AALS se...Just to add to what Paul Horwitz says, the AALS seems to specialize in making sure that law professors who want to meet to discuss a topic of mutual interest at an AALS event cannot do so. So I would interpret rejection by the AALS as an indicator about the AALS, not about the interests of law professors. Also, too bad this panel proposal was rejected: I would have liked to attend.Orin Kerrhttp://volokh.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-21836388744527021942011-12-06T07:57:16.225-08:002011-12-06T07:57:16.225-08:00NYC is obviously a troll,and not a very good one. ...NYC is obviously a troll,and not a very good one. I'm not going to delete him at the moment since I'm not in the mood for more of Method Man's meta-whining about deletion policies.LawProfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-89617438131778371762011-12-06T07:51:21.107-08:002011-12-06T07:51:21.107-08:00Meth, NYC has fooled even you. He has no views, he...Meth, NYC has fooled even you. He has no views, he is strictly messing with people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-21971078130232618502011-12-06T07:45:24.231-08:002011-12-06T07:45:24.231-08:00Meth Head: he was deleting comments that were abus...Meth Head: he was deleting comments that were abusive to other commenters and meanspirited, not those that merely disagreed. Go clutch your pearls and concern troll somewhere else if enforcing basic decency and respect for others is not your thing. Prof. Campos' moderation was "content-neutral". Your points on tightening up arguments for reform are valued, but this is just whining.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-43544531268815212182011-12-06T07:10:02.232-08:002011-12-06T07:10:02.232-08:00NYC -
Don't even bother. I don't agree wi...NYC -<br /><br />Don't even bother. I don't agree with everything you say, but Prof. Campos has indicated he's not interested in divergent views or nuanced criticisms, and is now endorsing the self-proclaimed "Troll Detective's" call to "aggressive[ly]" delete them. Meanwhile, Prof. Campos rejected earlier calls to moderate comments implicitly endorsing violence against law professors and explicitly comparing the situation of unemployed law school alums to Holocaust victims - on the grounds of free speech and encouragement of diverse views, of course.<br /><br />As his effort gathered steam, Prof. Campos' choice was whether to become a leader of a big-tent movement of well-intentioned reformers presenting diverse interpretations of the crisis, or to become the celebrated ringleader of a smaller, but louder, group of angry unemployed recent law graduates too cowardly to show their face on CBS with him but big and strong enough to call for law professors' heads in anonymous internet comments. For reasons best known to him (guilt? vanity? a convert's zeal?), he appears to have chosen the latter path. Just read his posts for defensiveness and pettiness. I sympathize in that he's probably getting weird looks in the faculty lounge these days, but almost everyone posting here is trying to help him, and he's biting our hands in the name of fealty to the cause.<br /><br />There are many injustices in the world, and many movements to remedy them. While the cause of preventing fraud to prospective law students is just, I'm not sure the path this movement is taking is. Indeed, it seems it is intolerant of dissent and criticism of anything except The Common Enemy. I like to be part of things that tolerate - even encourage - diversity of opinions and moderation, not conformity and extremism. The movement does not seem interested in attracting those, like me, who have no vested interest in the outcome (practicing lawyers with good jobs) but are genuinely sympathetic to those for whom the current system isn't working.<br /><br />How many comments before this one will be (a) deemed trolling and/or (b) deleted?<br /><br />-MethodologyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-64519341953905552162011-12-06T07:02:56.750-08:002011-12-06T07:02:56.750-08:00They're probably worried that if they tell the...They're probably worried that if they tell the truth, when everyone else lies, they'll see a dramatic drop in enrollment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-64265812601953245222011-12-06T06:53:04.132-08:002011-12-06T06:53:04.132-08:00I work as very low paid staff at a Tier 2 school. ...I work as very low paid staff at a Tier 2 school. Last week in a conversation with an administrator, this administrator admitted to me that our school only places around 60% of grads in jobs. Our website claims a 95% placement rate nine months after graduation.<br /><br />What is to be done about such bold-faced liars? Administration knows the truth. But they will not correct the lies on our website.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-4272427700742255462011-12-06T06:29:26.382-08:002011-12-06T06:29:26.382-08:00NYC is a troll, he's just trying to bait the g...NYC is a troll, he's just trying to bait the gullible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-6291826105050076652011-12-06T06:27:10.436-08:002011-12-06T06:27:10.436-08:00lol @ hedge fund "managers." Working at ...lol @ hedge fund "managers." Working at hedge funds would have been sufficient for trolling purposes, but you went too far with that manager thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-63560840639360922752011-12-06T06:21:22.400-08:002011-12-06T06:21:22.400-08:00That's all great 10:08pm, but other than menta...That's all great 10:08pm, but other than mentally masturbating your hubris all over this comments section, will you do any other act?<br /><br />No?<br /><br />I didn't think so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-12772470024626552332011-12-06T06:04:37.446-08:002011-12-06T06:04:37.446-08:00"Not every law graduate works as a lawyer. Th..."Not every law graduate works as a lawyer. The last time I went to a law school reunion, there were lots of successful graduates working as consultants, hedge fund managers, businessmen, etc. That's the beauty of a law degree."<br /><br />Did you go to NYLS or Pace?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-8914835809037468902011-12-06T05:50:36.706-08:002011-12-06T05:50:36.706-08:00@4:35AM you, my friend, are a troll or a terrible ...@4:35AM you, my friend, are a troll or a terrible person. Probably both.anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-8452125058245895282011-12-06T05:03:12.380-08:002011-12-06T05:03:12.380-08:00Re: participation rates in the comments section
I...Re: participation rates in the comments section<br /><br />I remember reading a post once by the owner of a popular news aggregating website (fark or digg or boing boing or something) who said something like less than 1% of site readers ever clicked on the comments sections of the stories, and of those clickthroughs MUCH less than 1% of people comment. Assuming that the readership here is even close to that, having 10-15 regular commenters means Professor Campos is getting, at the minimum, thousands of regular readers.BreezyWheezehttp://www.fark.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-88699034743331714882011-12-06T04:35:32.936-08:002011-12-06T04:35:32.936-08:00"(1) American law schools are graduating ar..."(1) American law schools are graduating around twice as many prospective lawyers per year than there are jobs for new lawyers, and this ratio is unlikley to improve in the foreseeable future."<br /><br />Not every law graduate works as a lawyer. The last time I went to a law school reunion, there were lots of successful graduates working as consultants, hedge fund managers, businessmen, etc. That's the beauty of a law degree.<br /><br />As a law professor, I haven't practiced in years. And yet I still make a good living with my law degree.<br /><br />"(2) For many years now the ever-increasing cost of legal education has ensured that an ever-increasing percentage of those graduates who do manage to get law jobs will be unable to earn enough to justify the cost of their legal education."<br /><br />Law school tuition has gone up, just like the price of gas and housing have gone up. And yet we don't see people whinging that gasoline is a "scam." If it's too expensive for you, don't buy a car and take the bus instead.nycnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-71814230230951966932011-12-06T03:04:38.630-08:002011-12-06T03:04:38.630-08:00Delusions of Grandeur much?Delusions of Grandeur much?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-2055961141416524392011-12-05T22:08:00.432-08:002011-12-05T22:08:00.432-08:00@8:34 p.m.
You are wrong and very badly wrong. I ...@8:34 p.m.<br />You are wrong and very badly wrong. I have waited 20 years for such blogspots as this and for the opportunity for a credible forum and a voice that the mainstream news media such as the NYT and WSJ listens to and reports about. Law school was a very bad investment for many, likely a majority, of my classmates 20 years ago. Law schools lie and report misleading job and salary data while charging a fortune for what they deliver. That situation has only worsened over the last two decades, not improved. Tens and hundreds of thousands of lives have been ruined or significantly negatively impacted by buying a law degree. The first step towards reform is to provide as much publicity as possible to the lies, the fraud, and this scam. I used the term "scam" to describe law schools and legal education two decades ago. Thank you to our moderator, someone in a position of power with credibility, for having the courage to speak the truth.<br /><br />I am not a loser. I have worked in 3 NLJ250 law firms and make a lot of money currently if that is any indicator you use to distinguish a loser from a non-loser, likely more than our moderator. I have spent months at expensive hotels in distant cities for clients and have traveled to Europe repeatedly on client matters. I suppose I could even retire now. Yet, still, I have seen the lies, and I have seen the harm they have caused. I know there are way, way too many lawyers. I remember the fight, the struggle, the terror to find a first job to pay off 63K in student debt nearly 20 years ago. I remember going to a first job knowing nothing about the practice of law from my academic accomplishments and law review contributions and being abused terribly because of my ignorance though I was top 5% of the class, and I know I made in the top 7% of the multistate bar examination by virtue of waiver to certain jurisdictions. <br /><br />No, this site is not about five losers fighting with each other. It is about winners trying to expose the truth, to provide light and truth where there has for far too long been darkness and lies. It is not about insignificant nonsense, it is about lives, about the wellbeing of human beings. It is about caring for the wellbeing of others. It is about providing information to potential victims and calling for social change, calling for truth, calling for justice. On a broader level, this site is also about allocation of our society's resources and dissuading the migration of people into a field that is saturated and where their talents are not needed. On another broader level, this site is about the efficient use of society's resources since a sizable percentage of law school graduates are not going to be able to repay their huge student loans. Those are some of the things that this site is about my friend.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-3760448091487094082011-12-05T20:34:09.458-08:002011-12-05T20:34:09.458-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-62951780287873686042011-12-05T20:00:30.009-08:002011-12-05T20:00:30.009-08:00Thanks Lawprof! Just read your update...but did yo...Thanks Lawprof! Just read your update...but did you know I was also described by you as the guy "obsessed" with countering transparency boy a few posts ago? You're welcome. Someone has to do the dirty work around here.Troll Detectivenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-47795035324889812322011-12-05T19:06:39.032-08:002011-12-05T19:06:39.032-08:00@5:11: TLS has a simple message:
any score below 1...@5:11: TLS has a simple message:<br />any score below 170 > retake<br />the only schools worth the sticker are t14<br />schools below t14 should be giving you big scholly<br /><br />I did not know they were subject-matter moderating, when I read TLS they openly acknowledged the issues with law schools that is why they have the simple message.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-24259411363332118842011-12-05T17:11:48.730-08:002011-12-05T17:11:48.730-08:00top-law-schools.com forums are in severe denial. T...top-law-schools.com forums are in severe denial. They have gone so far as to block links to blogs like this one. They do not even want discussion on the concept that law school might be a bad decision. <br /><br />Twits like VanWinkle (a moderator) are on a mission to ban anyone who brings up this type of discussion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-44091956582981327412011-12-05T14:59:26.070-08:002011-12-05T14:59:26.070-08:00James Kwak is getting owned in his comments.James Kwak is getting owned in his comments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-81955238201397334462011-12-05T14:31:12.951-08:002011-12-05T14:31:12.951-08:00Today, the LA Daily Journal reported that last mon...Today, the LA Daily Journal reported that last month the legal industry added only 100 jobs IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY. This seems relevant to the discussion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-43519668329463380532011-12-05T14:30:02.718-08:002011-12-05T14:30:02.718-08:00Every movement in history started small. People a...Every movement in history started small. People are lazy, non-confrontational creatures of habit. That is why change of any sort is terribly hard. The heroes of any movement are not the people who jump on the bandwagon after society is already changing. They're the people who stand up alone to face the status quo when no one else is speaking out. Some may say LawProf and other bloggers haven't accomplished much yet in their critique of legal education. But at least they're trying. I may not have the energy to start my own blog, but I'll sure support those that do and spread their message every time legal education comes up in conversation. Eventually, one conversation, one new person checking out this and similar websites at a time, this movement will grow to a size where it can make a difference.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-88728173411350595342011-12-05T14:22:46.214-08:002011-12-05T14:22:46.214-08:00There have been a number of commenters here statin...There have been a number of commenters here stating that this is not a problem, the crisis in legal education, by the amount of people who consistently post on these types of blogs. I would beg to differ. The fact that this "crisis" has received front page attention in every national newspaper for the past year or so speaks the opposite of a few "pissed off trolls." Many people in law school, having been one myself not that long ago, do not visit these websites, not because they are happy, but by visiting these blogs, they are acknowledging the severity of the problem/crisis.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com