tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post587220809636887423..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: Say anythingLawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-64397639260334149352012-04-08T15:59:57.821-07:002012-04-08T15:59:57.821-07:00I'm a 2011 Columbia Law School grad. Half of ...I'm a 2011 Columbia Law School grad. Half of my graduating class did not have secured employment to speak of--in any form, at any level--when we graduated, and this was a common, well known circumstance throughout the student body. Several of my fellow students would have taken anything in the public or private sphere, had it been offered to them. To suggest otherwise, to suggest that even ivory towered Columbia was shielded from a devastating economy/job market is preposterous.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-54368549491013003712012-03-27T00:36:44.679-07:002012-03-27T00:36:44.679-07:00There are many factors on why people are borrowing...There are many factors on why people are borrowing money from lending companies. But one must be sure about the loans that they are dealing with.Dallas Payday Loanhttps://www.paydayforest.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-21214389868369167042012-03-17T10:30:05.030-07:002012-03-17T10:30:05.030-07:00Part of the problem with legal education (and this...Part of the problem with legal education (and this had undoubtedly been said here repeatedly) is that a JD is required in order to sit for the bar exam. Unfortunately this required JD confers little in the way of knowledge or skill to the aspiring attorney, instead the entire enterprise acts as a sorting mechanism (smarter people -> better school, etc). The curriculum of the average law school has little to do with either the bar exam or the actual practice of law. It is hard to believe for those that have not seen it first hand, but there are "law professors" being paid large amounts of money to not teach anything of value. <br /><br />There is no meaningful oversight in place, for either the curriculum or the cost of tuition. And the schools can go on providing little for a high price. You see, the temptation to charge a whole lot of money for the privilege of getting a JD is seemingly irresistible. <br /><br />Add to that another level of failed self-governance in the reporting of job placement and starting salaries and you have what looks like a scam to me. The school I graduated from last May was claiming 97% employment (the stat since purged from their website). And, I saw with my own eyes how those in the class in front of me were suddenly hired for bullshit jobs that lasted, surprise, until just after the magic nine month mark. I was offered (and accepted, I’m not that proud) a “graduate fellowship” position eight months out. I am “employed” in the eyes of USNWR. There are times when I cannot believe this has happened to me.<br /><br />TL,DR: You need the JD to be an attorney, and a law school can determine what it means to have a JD and what it should cost.Crux of lawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06572986619859564280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-79890041270765135972012-03-17T08:07:07.339-07:002012-03-17T08:07:07.339-07:007:41
I am in the same boat as you. I want to pay...7:41<br /><br />I am in the same boat as you. I want to pay back what I owe but will winding up paying significantly more than what was borrowed because of capitalized interest. <br /><br />Why can't I refinance? Why can't I pay back what was borrowed with a reasonable amount of interest?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-13632213764426133982012-03-17T07:41:40.209-07:002012-03-17T07:41:40.209-07:00I would like to know how the "pay what you ow...I would like to know how the "pay what you owe" crowd would address the fact that many people end up paying 2-3 times what they originally borrowed, due to compounding interest. I would gladly pay what I borrowed, and if I only had to pay what I borrowed, I would be done paying in a few more years. As it is, with the interest, I'm going to be paying for most of the rest of my life. How do you address situations like JD Painter Guy's, where his loan balance skyrocketed due to huge penalty fees and his inability to pay the loan before the interest piled on? It's not as simple as "borrow money, pay it back."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-59250205920557773322012-03-17T06:11:07.138-07:002012-03-17T06:11:07.138-07:00Its the 'bunker mentality' the world over ...Its the 'bunker mentality' the world over professor.<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tivRCQqBFGA&feature=player_embeddedFINDCJhttp://www.silver.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-22918523866795747522012-03-17T05:54:13.539-07:002012-03-17T05:54:13.539-07:005:52 again- the dollar amounts for my "fix&qu...5:52 again- the dollar amounts for my "fix" refer to federally-backed loan dollars.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-1012796577055230362012-03-17T05:52:44.659-07:002012-03-17T05:52:44.659-07:0011:06- i am all for making people pay back what th...11:06- i am all for making people pay back what they borrow, except in this case, people are being duped into borrowing to purchase something that has very little actual value. they are being, wait for it, SCAMMED. do you think seniors who mistakenly send their money to nigerian "princes" deserve to get restitution? i certainly do.<br /><br />if law school were priced reasonably (i.e. somewhere near historic levels), if law deans weren't lying with impunity to trick impressionable kids (i'm sorry, 22 is not an adult anymore), and if the product being purchased were more valuable than your average snuggie, then your argument might hold some weight.<br /><br />let's fix the whole damn thing. starting tomorrow, a borrower can only take out a maximum of 14,999 dollars per year, and cannot have more than 74,999 dollars of student loan debt total (inclusive of undergrad). now, i wonder, how much do you think law school would cost, two days later?<br /><br />i should add that i am at my school on fellowship (independent endowment). but nearly all my friends are not. it isn't right what's happened to them. you're just so out of touch; you're the problem, 11:06.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-15455719368682834512012-03-17T05:35:34.354-07:002012-03-17T05:35:34.354-07:00@ March 16, 11:06PM said:
"We should be whip...@ March 16, 11:06PM said:<br /><br />"We should be whipping debtors and bringing back debtor's prisons."<br /><br />I guess that says it all in a nutshell.<br /><br />There are some diabolical people that are following and commenting on this blog.<br /><br />As far as Federally backed student loans go, there is no sweeter deal around. If Peter cannot pay, Paul the taxpayer will.<br /><br />So in theory, if the student loan debtor does ever pay, for example, a quadrupled student loan off, the banks will have collected twice: once from the debtor, and twice from the taxpayer in multiple payments during the term the loan is outstanding.<br /><br />I'm sure this kind of abuse of the Student Lending system was never envisioned at its inception, but that is nevertheless what has happened and continues to take place.<br /><br />If bankruptcy for student loans will never happen, there must, at the very least, be caps put in place on the interest.<br /><br />If nothing ever changes, I will ask: What stronger deterrent can there be for getting a higher education, let alone a law degree?<br /><br />In other words, why risk going to College or law school if it is going to ruin a person financially?<br /><br />Especially now that we have the written proof from March 16, 11:06PM that there is a prevailing sentiment in favor of debtor's prisons and flogging for the un or underemployed Educated class in America?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-18025936431190925372012-03-16T23:57:08.519-07:002012-03-16T23:57:08.519-07:00For one of the first times I can remember since re...For one of the first times I can remember since reading this blog, I have to say Campos is WRONG. Journalists for the national media generally are about as adversarial as 1Ls. The article didn't call out Schizer's bullshit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-52135378207766866112012-03-16T23:06:53.848-07:002012-03-16T23:06:53.848-07:00sthu you deadbeat. you CHOSE to borrow the money s...sthu you deadbeat. you CHOSE to borrow the money so you better pay it back. we should be whipping debtors and bringing back debtor's prisons.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-67674871200892865412012-03-16T21:38:06.763-07:002012-03-16T21:38:06.763-07:00The scam has so many layers.
Even supposing that ...The scam has so many layers.<br /><br />Even supposing that the lawsuits end up radically reforming legal education, they won't address the Student Lending racket.<br /><br />Sallie Mae and other Student lending entities, including the Federal Government should all be sued, and thereafter a superfund set up to compensate American individuals and families that have been the victims of inflated interest and usury.<br /><br />One has to ask: What percentage of the one trillion dollars outstanding in student loan debt is due to excessive interest without any caps whatsoever, which has benefitted a relative few to the detriment of countless others?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-81175278713818127072012-03-16T20:02:55.221-07:002012-03-16T20:02:55.221-07:00Columbia alumni are doing so well. Posted on one o...Columbia alumni are doing so well. Posted on one of my Linked In groups: <br /><br />"Brief Writer Available: Former Columbia Law School Kent Scholar, 3rd Circuit law clerk, and Adjunct Writing Professor at Temple. To engage her services, see LinkedIn profile - Rachel Schulman, Esq."<br /><br />This attorney graduated in the first half of the Aughts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-2614839127149549582012-03-16T18:04:14.109-07:002012-03-16T18:04:14.109-07:00Using hiring data from 2011, which reflects OCI in...Using hiring data from 2011, which reflects OCI in 2009 is probably notbthe best reference point for current commentary on legal hiringAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-2039864941957066632012-03-16T17:09:38.153-07:002012-03-16T17:09:38.153-07:00For a bit of contrast. MBA schools (and their dean...For a bit of contrast. MBA schools (and their deans) are ahead of the law schools. Their 'business model' is adapting a bit faster to reality:<br /><br />"The admission downturn has not spared the MBA elite, the group that includes Harvard and Penn. ... But even their graduates are fielding fewer job offers, said David Thomas, the new dean of the Georgetown business school, who previously worked at both Harvard and Penn. Leaders of Northwestern University’s Kellogg business school last month announced a “transformational” shift away from the traditional MBA program, in favor of a shorter one-year program and greater focus on international students."<br /><br />[I think international students are easier to milk.]<br /><br />"I believe that over the next 10 years, we will sort ourselves into about 20 schools” able to maintain full-time programs larger than 200 students, Thomas said. “And those schools will have to offer learning experiences that are truly distinct and powerful."<br /><br />http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/downturn-forces-area-business-schools-to-adapt/2012/02/11/gIQA1VnICS_story_1.htmlheihonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-7887677758931783522012-03-16T15:56:23.982-07:002012-03-16T15:56:23.982-07:00in your comment about journalists - I wonder why s...in your comment about journalists - I wonder why so many national journalists were misled about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq if they are so good at ferreting out when someone is lying?<br /><br />No, they write stories that say "Joe said X, Sam said why.". They do not really try to figure out who is correct. If someone has done a study, they will report on the fact that a study was done, and maybe how many pages it was, it they generally will not spend the time or energy to figure out if it is true or not. Unless it is one of the Murdoch media -- they will just write whatever fits their narrative regardless of truth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-47905300881381005502012-03-16T15:31:24.282-07:002012-03-16T15:31:24.282-07:00Columbia isn't affected?
Latham. Ever heard o...Columbia isn't affected?<br /><br />Latham. Ever heard of it?BL1Yhttp://www.constitutionaldaily.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-5808031342797120872012-03-16T15:28:19.264-07:002012-03-16T15:28:19.264-07:00Someone needs to get Michael Lewis to do a piece o...Someone needs to get Michael Lewis to do a piece on this law school scam....or at least a similarly skilled writer<br /><br />Here is Lewis' take on Columbia School of Journalism, way back in the nineties (link taken from thirdtierreality blog)<br /><br />http://www.uvm.edu/~tstreete/MediaCultureUVM/jschool_critique.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-33869393534118240532012-03-16T14:58:28.960-07:002012-03-16T14:58:28.960-07:00"But is Columbia affected? No."
ROFL. ..."But is Columbia affected? No."<br /><br />ROFL. Yeah, right. I call bulls-it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-5551394616469582182012-03-16T14:55:18.923-07:002012-03-16T14:55:18.923-07:00This is a good point. CLS will not guaranty you a ...This is a good point. CLS will not guaranty you a good job. Not even close, and it's fraudulent of Dean Schizer to say that it will.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-8083479516139678472012-03-16T14:32:32.523-07:002012-03-16T14:32:32.523-07:00The degenerates in the contemporary infotainmentpl...The degenerates in the contemporary infotainmentplex are more likely to report on Ivy Leaguers and raise overall awareness of the underlying problem.<br /><br />T14 grads = attractive white girl<br /><br />TTT grads = young black maleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-52711495955874673192012-03-16T14:24:51.532-07:002012-03-16T14:24:51.532-07:00@ 2:20
I disagree. I think if it is framed as an...@ 2:20<br /><br />I disagree. I think if it is framed as an Ivy League issue, a layman will be more alarmed. The Ancient Eight have always been perceived as meal tickets for life, regardless of the discipline studied. Joe The Plummer off the street might not understand the plight of an unemployed student from Cooley, the reason being he has never heard of Cooley and could theoreitcally question the wisdom and work ethic of the student attending there (the old, study harder, get good LSAT, work hard, network mentality that pervades the rest of society). However, Columbia is a household name, recognized around the world as an elite institution. I think your average person will become very scared if the students widely (and blindly) regarded as "the smart Ivy leaguers" are facing employment problems.ThreadJockeynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-80092109194128802022012-03-16T14:22:19.733-07:002012-03-16T14:22:19.733-07:00LawProf, take it easy on Columbia Law. They are st...LawProf, take it easy on Columbia Law. They are still mourning the death of one of its students who committed suicide. Perhaps this student was affected by the contraction of legal jobs.<br /><br />http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F00B16F93E5A15738DDDAD0A94D9405B878CF1D3Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-20378084314305303992012-03-16T14:20:46.407-07:002012-03-16T14:20:46.407-07:00"Among top tier law schools -- where debt can..."Among top tier law schools -- where debt can be steep -- "<br /><br />Debt is steep at nearly every law school. Again, as bad as it is out there for grads from top 5 schools, it's indescribably worse for those attending schools outside of the Top 14. I really hope this coverage doesn't frame the crisis in terms of "people should be alarmed because Ivy-leaguers can't get biglaw jobs." The crisis in legal education extends far beyond the top schools. Law school is too expensive for everybody, jobs are difficult to get for everybody. I don't think the average layman reading the NYT will understand the magnitude of the situation if it's predominately framed as an Ivy League problem or a prestigious law school only problem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-39629874830563625052012-03-16T14:11:04.519-07:002012-03-16T14:11:04.519-07:00LawProf: Elite law deans seem to have entered that...LawProf: Elite law deans seem to have entered that segment of society that has done and said whatever it wants for so long, while the rest of their little world of law school, bench and bar gazes upon them with reverence, that they have come to believe that whatever dribbles out of their mouths is both profound and unquestionable. It is this same belief that enables NYU to buy $3 1/2 million apartments for faculty and administrators to live in and, with a straight face, call them "investments." (That background noise you hear the investment staff that manages NYU's endowment laughing so hard they might injure themselves.) This has long been a problem with judges, as you have been pointing out for years. So, yes, number four is the most likely answer. And no, Dean Bullshit will not take your advice about journalists, so the next chapter may get very ugly, or amusing, depending on your point of view.<br /><br />RPLAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com