tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post5821374376504747773..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: When the levee breaksLawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger88125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-50622600845238824772012-03-07T11:11:02.412-08:002012-03-07T11:11:02.412-08:004:51 a.m. - Wonderfully put. William Ockham4:51 a.m. - Wonderfully put. William OckhamAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-83036035761861120962012-03-07T09:42:15.881-08:002012-03-07T09:42:15.881-08:00There is a larger societal problem of simply creat...There is a larger societal problem of simply creating too many lawyers. I've never heard a Stanford engineering or business student complain about the cost of tuition. <br /><br />Big companies have figured that its almost always cheaper to settle all but the most strategic litigation early. Much of SMB law can be accounted for using standardized documents, automated and provided significantly cheaper. <br /><br />The legal industry is going to be significantly smaller, which for society is probably a good thing. A basic legal degree is not particularly valuable anymore. Guaranteed employment requires both a rare and valuable skill set. In today's world, that is JD plus a MA is stats or some other technical discipline. With so many people struggling today and limited resources, its really tough to feel bad for the top 1%Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-79795687897821435272012-03-07T06:58:36.369-08:002012-03-07T06:58:36.369-08:00Re: Parents, the problem is that they come from a ...Re: Parents, the problem is that they come from a generation that wasn't over-saturated with lawyers and where college/grad school/professional school didn't mean a lifetime of debt servitude. To them, law school is not only "following your dreams" but also a sound long term investment. Hard to talk sense into your kids if you don't know how dire the situation is. The only adults I've known to actively discourage kids from going to law school have been lawyers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-12652595267377095932012-03-07T06:56:11.105-08:002012-03-07T06:56:11.105-08:00When the levee breaks, Led Zep says you should go ...When the levee breaks, Led Zep says you should go to Chicago for law school. Mean old levee!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-27001360497805999682012-03-07T06:40:51.814-08:002012-03-07T06:40:51.814-08:00CM-- why were you floored? We are in a recession. ...CM-- why were you floored? We are in a recession. The unemployment rate in 2010 was 10 percent, and that was not the real unemployment rate. How could the country sustain something like that and not have a ripple effect that would touch nearly every segment of society?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-40488848951968225672012-03-07T06:35:17.136-08:002012-03-07T06:35:17.136-08:00I was floored when he said median wages for househ...I was floored when he said median wages for household incomes remained the same for the past three decades !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-64584554768711560062012-03-07T06:32:46.252-08:002012-03-07T06:32:46.252-08:00The You Tube Videos have been posted. Paul you ar...The You Tube Videos have been posted. Paul you are really doing a great service. When I heard you say that 11% of the UVA class of 2010 was hired by UVA I was floored.Charlie Martinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-54146264463087693572012-03-07T06:05:48.670-08:002012-03-07T06:05:48.670-08:00@5:38-- That is a scary thought.@5:38-- That is a scary thought.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-34384172157862957372012-03-07T06:04:11.062-08:002012-03-07T06:04:11.062-08:00How much does it cost where you live now?How much does it cost where you live now?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-87572231670798278102012-03-07T05:53:17.965-08:002012-03-07T05:53:17.965-08:00"A bottle of coke used to cost a nickle."..."A bottle of coke used to cost a nickle."<br /><br />Actually, when I was in high school in the mid '60's a six ounce bottle of coke cost a dime. That is about $.72 in 2012 money so if the price of coke had gone up as fast as the price of law school six ounces of the stuff would cost almost three bucks.<br /><br />RPLAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-63621863892369457702012-03-07T05:46:12.182-08:002012-03-07T05:46:12.182-08:00Even being honest with people isn't enough. Y...Even being honest with people isn't enough. You need to spend some time on TLS. (top law schools) I don't frequent that site anymore. The comment by the person who posted "I heard your warning and I'm ignoring it." stopped me. I'm not interested in trying to save them from their future. Anyone else who wants to join in, go ahead.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-7188185021105382302012-03-07T05:38:57.111-08:002012-03-07T05:38:57.111-08:00"And a bottle of coca-cola used to cost a nic..."And a bottle of coca-cola used to cost a nickel, then,too."<br /><br />It still costs about that much if you buy huge portions from costco.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-86649460833844061532012-03-07T05:38:52.821-08:002012-03-07T05:38:52.821-08:00Yes, parents should be in this discussion, and the...Yes, parents should be in this discussion, and they seldom are on this site except to be portrayed as the ones who supposedly exhort their children to go to law school no matter what. Parents seem to be MIA when it comes to talking things over with their children.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-20140300408004859222012-03-07T04:51:07.518-08:002012-03-07T04:51:07.518-08:00"What is the solution to this problem though?..."What is the solution to this problem though? To tell people to forget about a legal career and instead pursue the over-saturated PhD market? Or go into medicine even if the person has no desire to do so? <br />Or to simply forget about grad-school all together and "settle" for something that pays the bills?"<br /><br />I don't know. I do know that as a 17 year old I had to hang up the baseball cleats. Despite some interest from college programs, I had to decide whether I wanted to base my decision on where to attend college on which school allowed me to continue my baseball career, or if I wanted to go to the best school for me in the long term. I chose the latter. <br /><br />I owe a huge debt of gratitude to my father, who although he supported me following my dreams my whole life, loved me enough to be honest with me. He'd have supported me either way, but he very bluntly one day asked me what that future might look like. <br /><br />Was I likely to play in the major leagues? If not, what did the future hold? Go to a school I'd never considered before I got a letter from the baseball coach? Then what? What's the end game, what's the best or worst case scenario? If the majors was a pipe dream for me, what would my life look like in 10 years? Bouncing around minor league programs, riding buses and staying in cheap hotels for 10 years? Then what? Entry into the "regular" job market at age 23, 25, 27 or whenever the phone stopped rining from minor league teams? What would my resume look like at that point, and whom might I expect to work for in my remaining 30 years prior to retirement?<br /><br />He wasn't harsh about it. He was completely honest. And it was exactly what I needed to hear. He told me he wouldn't dictate to me. He knew what it was like to love the game...how he would love to be 17 again for one day, find a glove and a game and play real, honest-to-goodness hardball one more time. He knew that it would be a very tough thing for a 17 year old to look at that decision through a rational analysis instead of having stars in my eyes. (Amazingly, professional sports don't even need glossy brochures and cooked salary information to draw starry-eyed dreamers).<br /><br />But in reality, we all have to grow up sometime. If I managed to do it at 17, I don't see why folks half-a-decade older can't do it, weighing the overwhelming evidence in front of them. <br /><br />They just need someone that cares enough to be honest with them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-65580403878623881422012-03-07T03:21:18.455-08:002012-03-07T03:21:18.455-08:00You can call this an inherited aristocracy if you ...<i>You can call this an inherited aristocracy if you like. You probably don't live in New York so you don't realize this is what is already happening.</i><br /><br />Amen.terry malloynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-31916806176279636022012-03-06T22:19:38.074-08:002012-03-06T22:19:38.074-08:00@7:47 you are absolutely correct. No one should b...@7:47 you are absolutely correct. No one should be going to law school unless they get a big scholarship, or they are rich and doing it for fun or have connections to establish themselves. I've been in this miserable business for 19 years and have seen scores of those who initially scored biglaw ruined, much more so those who never scored biglaw. It is absolutely ridiculous that people are paying to enter the lawyering business. They clearly do not know what they are getting into. I'm a 19 year veteran of the patent law business....and still working it for now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-77221971229443233452012-03-06T20:40:47.200-08:002012-03-06T20:40:47.200-08:00What good does it do for someone if they get a cra...What good does it do for someone if they get a crappy law degree and they never get a permanent legal job (or they get one so low paying it doesn't enable them to pay back their six figure loans and live a semblance of a middle class life)? <br /><br />Even with subsidized student loans, there's a de facto aristocrat vs. serf system already in place. The aristocratic lawyers can pay back their loans and the serf attorneys are in permanent debt peonage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-44841708851582711602012-03-06T19:47:02.660-08:002012-03-06T19:47:02.660-08:00Outside of exceptional scholarships or low cost si...Outside of exceptional scholarships or low cost situations, only the rich should be going to law school. No one should take out 6 figures of debt to go to law school.<br /><br />Whether you like it or not, the reality of the situation is that if you have to borrow to go to law school, you will be in significant debt for at least the next 10 years, and probably longer. The chances of you having a bad outcome from taking on that debt are much higher than a good outcome. <br /><br />You can call this an inherited aristocracy if you like. You probably don't live in New York so you don't realize this is what is already happening.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-81823547665863291602012-03-06T19:01:10.109-08:002012-03-06T19:01:10.109-08:00LawProf, Thank you for removing 6:26PM post....LawProf, Thank you for removing 6:26PM post....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-845821417549440222012-03-06T19:00:06.087-08:002012-03-06T19:00:06.087-08:006:48: In 1965 UM resident tuition was $3350 in 201...6:48: In 1965 UM resident tuition was $3350 in 2010 dollars. Non-resident tuition was $7,700 in 2010 dollars.<br /><br />2:22: I'm not satisfied with CU's reporting. It's a lot better than it was, but not as good as it ought to be.LawProfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-68932517151721142872012-03-06T18:48:42.480-08:002012-03-06T18:48:42.480-08:00Let's say $28 per credit hour at U of M is acc...Let's say $28 per credit hour at U of M is accurate for 1965. After inflation, that's about $201 today... or about $18,000 for a 90 credit law degree...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-45842391419681779932012-03-06T18:47:36.325-08:002012-03-06T18:47:36.325-08:006:26 PM I hope you get a job soon so that you do n...6:26 PM I hope you get a job soon so that you do not sink any lower like those other cowards...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-81183520762134391282012-03-06T18:43:51.107-08:002012-03-06T18:43:51.107-08:00And a bottle of coca-cola used to cost a nickel, t...And a bottle of coca-cola used to cost a nickel, then,too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-8110562614717046062012-03-06T18:19:54.271-08:002012-03-06T18:19:54.271-08:00"Without government loans only the rich will ..."Without government loans only the rich will go to law school.<br /><br />Inherited aristocracy, anyone?"<br /><br />What a load of crap. One of my law professors was just telling us that he was spending $28 per credit hour in the 60's when he went to school (university of Michigan). Rich?? Are you kidding me??? <br /><br />There's no reason for law school to be so expensive. Any bar review course will prove that... for $3,000 or less you get three years' worth of education. If you substituted a bar review course for law school that works out to about $33 per credit hour.<br /><br />Explain to me again why law school SHOULD be so expensive. Does each school have a different way of teaching the elements of battery? Does Harvard do a better job at that than TJLS?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-65398596479463965262012-03-06T18:00:02.397-08:002012-03-06T18:00:02.397-08:00That is unless they revive public education at the...That is unless they revive public education at the post-secondary school level.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com