tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post5443612538813311891..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: Halfway homeLawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-83029475346459866282015-03-05T13:33:27.723-08:002015-03-05T13:33:27.723-08:00@ 6:50 PM
OP here. What law school employment nu...@ 6:50 PM<br /><br />OP here. What law school employment numbers in the aggregate are, are way beyond believable. We're talking about an industry that has been caught lying many, many times, and they're lying now. <br /><br />A 10% employment rate doesn't sound so good, neither does 50%, but they all still put 85-90% in their glossy brochures...and then post their Standard 509s on their websites. <br /><br />It's a load of poo poo that they placed such astronomical numbers of graduates in an industry that's been FLAT for the better part of a decade. It's a lie. It's fraud. <br /><br />For me, this "crisis" doesn't end when law schools close, or when the obscene, unjust debt induced by fraud is discharged, it ends when the persons responsible for huge, systemic fraud start being held personally responsible. Maybe they need to get dragged from their homes Bolshevik-style. Whatever it takes. They owe society and they owe their victims. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-32490880915213382462015-03-05T10:35:55.587-08:002015-03-05T10:35:55.587-08:00"Most professionals work hard. It goes with t..."Most professionals work hard. It goes with the territory.<br /><br />In law, you really need to prepare for long periods of unemployment. It happens to most people. "<br /><br />Most professions don't require $100-$250K + debt to enter.<br /><br />-BarryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-31071204502109887592015-03-05T05:55:09.737-08:002015-03-05T05:55:09.737-08:00Most professionals work hard. It goes with the ter...Most professionals work hard. It goes with the territory.<br /><br />In law, you really need to prepare for long periods of unemployment. It happens to most people. <br /><br />Unless you are in and can stay long term in one of relatively few long term positions with institutional work, making a living as a lawyer long term is likely to be an uphill battle. <br /><br />You cannot get work on demand. There are no extra shifts available and no way to get clients just because you need the work. <br /><br />The entry level system produces a huge oversupply of highly trained lawyers with strong legal experience. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-66929608166316722722015-03-04T21:52:23.765-08:002015-03-04T21:52:23.765-08:00I'd say it's even worse if you look at the...I'd say it's even worse if you look at the number of GOOD jobs, jobs that not only pay a strong wage justifying 3 years of graduate education and the accompanying cost, but also the licensing requirements of not only passing the bar but continued CLE and registration fees as well as administrative requirements (reporting each cycle, leaving addresses for home and business, C&F which doesn't exist anywhere else) AND also provide a quality of life experience that makes people happy to have their job.<br /><br />How many good CAREER jobs that people have their health and a work-life balance are there in law? I do wonder if it even reaches 1500 a year of that type of position. Even most Big Law positions won't fit those requirements.<br /><br />If people knew the reality of legal practice, even absent the awful career prospects, how many people would willingly subject themselves to a career as a lawyer? I know I personally wouldn't. <br /><br />For all the stress and job dissatisfaction law creates, it's amazing that anyone would want to do it for the awful salaries in place. I'm not sure there is ANY salary I would take, any reasonable one at any rate, to practice as a lawyer. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-55202056188572759652015-03-04T21:35:37.027-08:002015-03-04T21:35:37.027-08:00Thanks for posting the update. You should post mo...Thanks for posting the update. You should post more on this blog with links to your articles on Lawyers, Guns, and Money that are relevant to the readers of ITLSS.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-25780776340384514472015-03-04T18:50:22.022-08:002015-03-04T18:50:22.022-08:00Good point, but one explanation for high first yea...Good point, but one explanation for high first year placement is that the legal profession has become quite age pyramidal in the face of extreme lawyer oversupply. Just because people are placed as first years, does not mean they can have a career as a lawyer. On average, only half of the first years will be working as lawyers for a 40 year career, and that statistic includes temps and solos.<br /><br />You also have the bi modal first year salary distribution and a huge number of temporary jobs without benefits for experienced lawyers. These are products of extreme lawyer oversupply.<br /><br />A top law degree may offer opportunities for the young. For older lawyers, less so, because of extreme lawyer oversupply.<br /><br />I hate to think about how many lawyers actually have employer paid health insurance. Because of the proliferation of temps, many of the lawyer jobs don't have benefits. Sort of like working at Walmart and having your hours chopped to part time so they don't have to pay overtime or benefits. However, for lawyers, companies can just hire temps and dispose of them after a few months without providing benefits.<br /><br />Based on the available data, the long term employment outcomes for lawyers are very much worse than the first year outcomes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-17150567705869286682015-03-04T16:37:52.595-08:002015-03-04T16:37:52.595-08:00It is so rewarding to see that we have collectivel...It is so rewarding to see that we have collectively saved thousands of young people from financial hell. The law school pigs never expected the well to run dry.Nandohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06423524039657355134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-73391857756764788052015-03-04T16:17:46.211-08:002015-03-04T16:17:46.211-08:00"So that's around 28,500 or so new prospe..."So that's around 28,500 or so new prospective lawyers going into a system that can probably absorb -- this has to be no more than an educated guess -- perhaps 20,000 per year." <br /><br />Based on Bureau of Labor Statistics metrics, I question this. <br /><br />From the Q2 of 2007 through the Q4 of 2009, the Legal Services Sector lost 70,000 jobs. From Q4 2009 - Q4 2014, the Legal Services Sector added back only 10,000. <br /><br />Even if one assumes every one of those 10,000 was an attorney job, that is still 10,000 over 6.5 years, or 1,538 per year on average starting in 2010. <br /><br />If the Legal Services Sector is really absorbing 20,000 per year those new graduates must be replacing licensed attorneys leaving the profession since the Sector did not add 20,000 or anything close to it per year...But, where's the evidence of such an exodus of lawyers from the profession? <br /><br />Personally, I think even the 50% employment-as-lawyers unaudited, self-reports from law schools are pure fraud; made-up, fabricated. <br /><br />CONSIDER: Law schools claim they placed something like 20,000 per year, 2007-2014, into *JD-bar-passage-required* jobs. That is, they claim they placed approximately 130,000 graduates into lawyer jobs during a period of time in which the Sector was net -60,000 jobs. FRAUD. ALERT. <br /><br />The 50% absorption rate for new graduates is a number so soft it would make the anal emissions of a Giardia sufferer look firm. <br /><br />Dr. Michael Burry said it best when he said you will know the end stage of a credit bubble by the acceleration of fraud. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com