tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post1582356471727300146..comments2023-10-30T08:41:06.178-07:00Comments on Inside the Law School Scam: The disappearedLawProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05174586969709793419noreply@blogger.comBlogger114125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-38996211615324412992013-01-16T06:15:49.844-08:002013-01-16T06:15:49.844-08:00I wish someone would bring up the ridiculous cost ...I wish someone would bring up the ridiculous cost of bar exams! I am taking my second in under a year because I was able to find work in another state. But so far, the state bar associations of those two states have drained almost $5,000 out of me. With the law employment crisis the way it is (I'm definitely not working a 6-figure job) this is going to have to change somehow. People can't afford to become licensed with the system the way it is!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-83695971316812481602012-11-13T12:20:41.633-08:002012-11-13T12:20:41.633-08:00Pretty sure you pronounce it "satire".Pretty sure you pronounce it "satire".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-43948976088717234032012-11-13T03:27:42.091-08:002012-11-13T03:27:42.091-08:00retail is scum.retail is scum.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-11924983091037874202012-11-12T16:25:40.822-08:002012-11-12T16:25:40.822-08:00A Columbia grad who failed the bar NINE TIMES?
*...A Columbia grad who failed the bar NINE TIMES? <br /><br />*AND* secured employment with a big corporation? <br /><br />Anyone else smell affirmative action? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-12227191452612553222012-11-12T08:21:55.599-08:002012-11-12T08:21:55.599-08:00Happy Loman:
I am glad you finally stood up for y...Happy Loman:<br /><br />I am glad you finally stood up for yourself, but am saddened as to what has happened to you (and so many others).<br /><br />I grew up in a "union" town. I frequently DISAGREE with the unions...but they have a good point in that a man should get fair pay for a good day's work. I think women should too!<br /><br />Perhaps that is why I never did an internship. Working for free rubs me the wrong way. If you are doing it for a legitimate charity, that is fine....but people coming out of skool should not have to do years of unpaid apprenticeship.<br /><br />Think of it this way...If you have to do YEARS of unpaid internships, you will NEVER get an economic return on your degree/edukation. Somebody who started off in a $10 or $12 hour job with some amount of advancement potential will probably make more. They were working for 10+ years, MAKING money, not PAYING money.<br /><br />I am glad you finally saw the light, and decided to stand up for yourself. <br /><br />May 2013 be a better year for you!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-69032313338062889932012-11-12T06:47:31.431-08:002012-11-12T06:47:31.431-08:00The states need to step in where the ABA hasn'...The states need to step in where the ABA hasn't. Bar passage requirements could be significantly increased, which would drive out the JD diploma mills. A minimum MBE score of 145-150 would be a good start: schools that draw from the bottom 50% of the applicant pool (LSAT based) would see most of their grads fail, and these schools would fall into a death spiral (low pass rates, loss of accreditation, loss of applicants). LSAT scores and bar results rates are positively correlated. Right now, the thresholds for most states are terribly low. When I took NY's and FL's exams, you needed a 130 and 133, respectively, to pass. That's just absurd. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-34495281900202768952012-11-11T19:12:48.433-08:002012-11-11T19:12:48.433-08:00@6:32. Thanks, you've just inspired me to go t...@6:32. Thanks, you've just inspired me to go to law school, take out a ton of debt, and default on your ass.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-91239366345981996062012-11-11T18:32:37.087-08:002012-11-11T18:32:37.087-08:00@2:05, lol.
@10:52, grow up, little girl. Learn to...@2:05, lol.<br />@10:52, grow up, little girl. Learn to join the adult world, where we pay our own bills instead of having free money (which ain't free) rainin' down on us from Unca Sugah. Grow TF up, will ya?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-55051518481130824102012-11-11T18:27:39.888-08:002012-11-11T18:27:39.888-08:00Yeah - if you check the comments under the article...Yeah - if you check the comments under the article, it looks like a number of commenters figured out DearProfessorLerman's angle and castigated her for it. <br /><br />Anyone think she can really be so clueless? Or is she shillin'?Lisa Lerman - Law Prof at Catholic Unoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-59688772770487107722012-11-11T17:40:07.786-08:002012-11-11T17:40:07.786-08:00Aahahahaa! Maybe you should stop waiting for God a...Aahahahaa! Maybe you should stop waiting for God and start helping yourself. Get a public service job, avoid getting shit-canned for ten years, and have your entire debt discharged by 2022. <br /><br />What are you, too good to work at the post office, or something? YOU LIVE WITH YOUR PARENTS. <br /><br />I had been hoping that hurricane would concentrate every ounce of its might on destroying that law school diploma of yours.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-29643021927654137442012-11-11T17:25:22.221-08:002012-11-11T17:25:22.221-08:00LOL, No one cares about getting a public-sector jo...LOL, No one cares about getting a public-sector job and having his mountain of debt discharged in 10 years. <br /><br />No one cares about moving out of his parents' house. <br /><br />No one cares about honoring his obligations. <br /><br />Oh, there's a bitchin' movie on TCM tonight?! <br /><br />Someone cares.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-32771075976691976172012-11-11T15:35:43.864-08:002012-11-11T15:35:43.864-08:00Probably the best motive for poorer people's f...Probably the best motive for poorer people's financial self destruction in today's USA is the desire to "help other people" <br /><br />It will get you into a law school for sure, and thereafter close the door on your rest life in the form of absolutely inhuman and horrible and unprecedented (in the modern civilized world) form of debt with no bankruptcy protections.<br /><br />The bankruptcy protections were criminally removed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-48500107546780852012-11-11T14:05:24.547-08:002012-11-11T14:05:24.547-08:00What? I have tons of friends from college working ...What? I have tons of friends from college working retail. They don't really mind it because they're positive people and think discounted clothes and flexible schedules are great. But it's still a bad outcome considering how much their parents paid for the BA. <br /><br />Positive thinking doesn't get you a better outcome, it just makes you think whatever outcome you get is good.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-35088570450258045382012-11-11T13:41:14.584-08:002012-11-11T13:41:14.584-08:00I was in the same situation, and am glad I stayed ...I was in the same situation, and am glad I stayed in law school. If you think negative, negative things will happen to you. If you are a positive person, you will succeed. Why do you think all these negative thinking people are all failing left and right on these blogs?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-1229622461267568462012-11-11T13:39:32.132-08:002012-11-11T13:39:32.132-08:00Why can't you do something like that? Serious...Why can't you do something like that? Seriously? Is the JD really stopping you, or is your own negativity stopping you instead?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-36097030567064177372012-11-11T13:38:44.471-08:002012-11-11T13:38:44.471-08:00Your negativity was your only undoing, not the JD....Your negativity was your only undoing, not the JD. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-46131693307898828002012-11-11T10:52:50.192-08:002012-11-11T10:52:50.192-08:00@6:28. You should educate yourself before calling ...@6:28. You should educate yourself before calling other people stupid. If a person is borrowing money to go to law school and does not complete the semester or falls below fulltime student status, the school has to return the federal funds and the student has to repay the school usually within the year rather than a 10 year repayment plan to the government. People can't drop out of school willy-nilly, there is a huge financial penalty for doing so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-57181479601538884342012-11-11T10:41:27.178-08:002012-11-11T10:41:27.178-08:00@9:18am
Happy Loman here. I have to respond down...@9:18am<br /><br />Happy Loman here. I have to respond down here because my computer does not allow me to hit the 'reply' button to reply.<br /><br />With regards to your questions:<br /><br />I realized that things were hard but was convinced that I was simply not working hard enough to get a job and that it was something I was doing on my end - that if I just got more and more experience, eventually that was the thing that would get me hired. I was reinforced in this belief by the fact that all the paid legal jobs I looked at required several years of experience, so it seemed that was the only way I could get a legal job. I didn't look at it that I was being taken advantage of because quite frankly, it was something almost ALL of my fellow graduates were and still are doing. I was told by numerous individuals (law professors, the career center at school, several individuals in the profession, the state bar, etc.) that doing internships was what you had to do because no one would be hired without experience. My experience is not uncommon. At one place where I interned, I querried everyone and discovered that the average recent grad had already done about 5 unpaid internships. It's just a sign of the times - so few organizations have money to hire that some are only surviving due to the free help they get. Unfortunately, no one gives much thought to the impact of the arrangement on those providing the free labor, however.<br /><br />It probably didn't help that my father also kept emphasizing that in order to get a legal job I needed to do what I needed to do and that no job - unpaid or not - was beneath me. To this day, my family is still disappointed that I chose to give up the unpaid work in favor of a retail job. They believe you stop at nothing to get a legal job and that I gave up. I look at it as finally making a wise financial decision.<br /><br />Keep in mind, also, that I had already invested over $100,000 in my legal education plus another couple thousand for the bar and years of losing a salary, so I was reluctant to throw it all away and return to retail. It took me awhile to realize that by working for free, I was doing just that - throwing my education all away. It took me quite some time to realize that I wasn't benefitting from this arrangement at all because I believed that if I just kept working hard, it would eventually lead to a job that would justify the enormous investment I made. <br /><br />As for how I pay back my loans, I am on IBR, as you really don't have enough money to pay loans on the salary I make. (About $12,000 a year.) But IBR isn't a solution as well. The interest on my loans continue to accumulate and my loans have increased by $20,000 since I graduated, since I am unable to make any payments on them. With a retail career and an continual increase in interest, I realize it is unlikely I will ever pay them off and that makes me sad. But I did the best that I could with the information I had at the time. <br /><br />In short, I did internship after internship because that is what I had been told by so many in the profession that I needed to do and I was reluctant to give up on being a lawyer given my enormous investment. It wasn't until recently that I said 'screw this - it aint worth it anymore and the legal profession can go to hell in a hand basket.' Best financial decision I made in years. If more people had that attitude, places where I interned could no longer expect free work, they would have to start paying, and law tuition would go down. But I don't expect that to happen anytime soon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-84951640028337820162012-11-11T09:18:48.730-08:002012-11-11T09:18:48.730-08:00Happy Loman:
I have sympathy for you and your ter...Happy Loman:<br /><br />I have sympathy for you and your terrible situation...BUT I have 2 questions.<br /><br />Q: Didn't you realize something was terribly amiss before you had to stop lawyering due to lack of funds? How could you work for YEARS as an unpaid attorney? Did you not realize they were just taking advantage of you?<br /><br />Q: How are you paying your student loans? Are you on IBR?<br /><br />Good luck to you, I hope your situation improves.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-44568073597343981052012-11-11T05:45:38.039-08:002012-11-11T05:45:38.039-08:00I would try to find a job in a city that offers a ...I would try to find a job in a city that offers a night law school and finish up that way in my own good time. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-85597549602925884622012-11-11T05:10:35.367-08:002012-11-11T05:10:35.367-08:00@5:13pm
If you apply for non-legal jobs you'd...@5:13pm<br /><br />If you apply for non-legal jobs you'd better leave the JD off your resume because you'll NEVER get hired otherwise.Joe Blackhttp://www.facebook.com/pages/Dont-Go-to-Law-School/239348152800236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-64372243514805984792012-11-10T19:12:10.825-08:002012-11-10T19:12:10.825-08:00@5:13
3:51 here. It's hard to say what you s...@5:13<br /><br />3:51 here. It's hard to say what you should do as it depends on your financial situation and what you want to do and why you went to law school. I would first talk to as many graduates from your school as you can - preferably those that are 2-3 years out. If you can find some who are currently residing in the state you would like to practice in, that would be ideal. Get a feel from them about the employment situations they see out in the field. You can better guage from them what you can hope to expect. <br /><br />Second, ask yourself what you hope to do after graduating. Don't answer in the specific but rather in the general. I say that because many that attend law school hope to help people without realizing that you can help people without plunking down $100,000 and being a lawyer. In the state where I currently live, in the state jobbank, there are 76 social worker positions and 3 lawyer positions, with the lawyer positions requiring 7 years courtroom experience in a particular area of the law. Obviously, if you wanted to help people it would probably be a better investment of one's time to get a social worker's degree. It would save a great deal of money and one would have a much better chance of getting a job helping people than one would if he or she got a law degree. So ask yourself in general what you want to do and whether a law degree is ABSOLUTELY necessary and worth the cost to accomplish it.<br /><br />Having said all that, you already have 2 years invested. It may be worth it to finish that last year so that you will have completed something. Should you decide to go that route, I would STRONGLY suggest that you immerse yourself in as many internships as you can RIGHT NOW, so that you will have a better chance of getting a job after graduating. Also, put as much money aside this last year from your loans as you can - I cannot stress this enough! - so that when you graduate, you will have some money to help ease the transition until you get paid work, which may or may not be quite some time after graduating. When you do begin to look for work, be flexible in what you look for and don't just limit your search to legal jobs. You may not get those. But you may be surprised at what you find out there that is not what you expect but still good.<br /><br />Lastly, if you do decide to finish up and graduate, that doesn't necessarily mean you have to sink in another couple thousand to take the bar. As I indicated, I took the bar and passed as have many of my lawyer friends and it didn't make much of a difference (in my case, none whatsoever) career-wise. Finishing school is one thing. It doesn't mean you MUST take the bar. I would only suggest taking the bar if you have a legal job lined up that requires it. If you keep your legal search expansive, you may find a job that doesn't require you to take the bar, saving you an additional several thousand dollars and more time spent away from the workforce.<br /><br />Best of luck in your decision and in your career. I sincerely hope the career path you choose to take turns out to be a kinder path than the one I have taken. Good luck!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-78696556962244347152012-11-10T18:28:13.602-08:002012-11-10T18:28:13.602-08:00"I'd drop out now, but I need the loans t..."I'd drop out now, but I need the loans to live off until I find a job."<br /><br />Do you have any effin' clue how stupid that sounds?<br /><br />You'll pile on more debt for COL instead of getting a friggin' 10/hr job in retail?<br /><br />You're frankly too stupid to be helped.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-4807237787239242162012-11-10T18:19:46.536-08:002012-11-10T18:19:46.536-08:00Johnny, go `way please.Johnny, go `way please.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5164886390834386622.post-56595008560915217942012-11-10T18:18:07.301-08:002012-11-10T18:18:07.301-08:00"Mitt Romney did not pas [sic]the bar..."..."Mitt Romney did not pas <i>[sic]</i>the bar..."<br /><br /><br /><br />That is not true.Liar, liar, pants (y'know....)noreply@blogger.com